VMC upside down?

Heating, insulation, ventilation, VMC, cooling ... short thermal comfort. Insulation, wood energy, heat pumps but also electricity, gas or oil, VMC ... Help in choosing and implementation, problem solving, optimization, tips and tricks ...
LOGIC12
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VMC upside down?




by LOGIC12 » 03/12/09, 20:48

HELLO: "put a CMV upside down", yes but it should not be put in the same place, it would be necessary to blow in the rooms such as living room, bedrooms, and have an air outlet in the kitchen and in the room of water.

And then, the fan does not turn upside down, and there are several vents on one side and one for the extraction on the other, so it is not so simple.

And the problem is the unpleasant feeling of fresh air that you may feel. You could operate it intermittently using a timer, but you would need a bathroom extractor that you would operate 20 minutes after the shower so that the room does not degrade.
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by Christophe » 03/12/09, 23:15

:?:
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I Citro
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by I Citro » 03/12/09, 23:49

Christophe wrote::?:
: Lol: Well it looks like LOGIC12 has just reinvented the VMC Double Flux but without the extraction and without the exchanger ...
Image

And then it's great, in addition it cools the house in winter and warms it in summer. : Lol:

Fortunately, there is a 2nd single flow VMC to extract polluted air from damp rooms.
8)

Must patent this, and quickly. : Lol:
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nutt
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by nutt » 04/12/09, 08:43

citro wrote:
Christophe wrote::?:
: Lol: Well it looks like LOGIC12 has just reinvented the VMC Double Flux but without the extraction and without the exchanger ...
Image

And then it's great, in addition it cools the house in winter and warms it in summer. : Lol:

Fortunately, there is a 2nd single flow VMC to extract polluted air from damp rooms.
8)

Must patent this, and quickly. : Lol:


Note 1: it does not cool / heat the house more than a single flow (but it is certainly not as good as the very expensive double flow ...)

Note 2: it is compatible with boilers with natural air intake unlike the simple flow

Note 3: little piping, so in renovation it's very good

Note 4: It is a ventilation therefore, when we have humidity, it is better than ... nothing

Note 5: Getting the air out not through the 'holes' in the house (window slits, ventilation grilles ...) is no less good than through exhaust vents, it is just not at the same location.
As the house is under slight overpressure, there is no need to extract the air in the humid rooms, it will come out by itself by the exits ...

Note 6: this is the VMI principle, which is patented. Except that the expensive VMI have a resistance to heat the air, hence consumption

Note 7: With a Canadian well this solution can be very interesting. Without, you have to find tricks to heat the air.

Note 8: I find this way of responding to people fascinating. You have certainties and a very limited vision of the world and see only your personal case! Each house having specificities, impossibilities ... this system can very well be adapted sometimes.
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by Christophe » 04/12/09, 11:02

? you answer in place of the author or you are the same person?

It's not a question of lack of openness. It sounds like a joke (no pun intended) this idea ... but nothing prevents you from doing it at home, at home I would not do it anyway!

You might as well leave the door open permanently rather than bringing hot / cold air into the house ...

If it's the double pipes that are bothering you (thing I understand, not obvious), then look at this InVENTER double flow sequential CMV which only has one hose for extraction and aspiration ...
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nutt
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by nutt » 04/12/09, 12:11

Christophe wrote:? you answer in place of the author or you are the same person?

It's not a question of lack of openness. It sounds like a joke (no pun intended) this idea ... but nothing prevents you from doing it at home, at home I would not do it anyway!

You might as well leave the door open permanently rather than bringing hot / cold air into the house ...

If it's the double pipes that are bothering you (thing I understand, not obvious), then look at this InVENTER double flow sequential CMV which only has one hose for extraction and aspiration ...


No, I'm not the same person. I had just already asked the question about this forum. I already read posts here or on FS of people who installed this system (in particular a person who made pass the air intake duct in his cellar so that the blown air, coming from the roof, warms up before entering the house)

Obviously that this system is infinitely worse than a double flow !!!! But it's not worse than a simple one !!!!

With us we don't peut no double flow due to the configuration of our old house (well we could but it would only be used for a bathroom and a small heated room (storage room, dressing room, boiler room), nothing in the living room, the bedrooms, the entrance, kitchen, toilets !!!!!!!! I don't think the investment is worth it). You can't put a simple flow either because of the boiler.

So what do we do ? (my husband would say "nothing" but he hates DIY!)

The only way to clean up our bathroom is to breathe in some air that we will try to make as cold as possible. Stale, moist air will come out of the window ventilation slot.

It is nothing like a joke it is just a compromise between everything that is possible and impossible at US. Leaving natural ventilation is also heat loss and it does not solve our humidity problem.

General ideas are interesting in themselves but not always on a case-by-case basis.

The product that you are showing is very interesting but my boiler is incompatible: during the aspiration, the boiler draft will be thwarted.

It always annoys me a bit with clear answers full of certainties (but it must come from my character to always doubt ...). Trust people before you answer them like that. Maybe they have good reason to ask this question. Well at the same time I did not really feel that it was a question but rather a copy / paste of another discus, I also spent a time telling myself that the site was messing around and that there was necessarily a previous page before the intervention of Logic12. But no...

But otherwise I find this forum extremely interesting with lots of sharp discus (besides I don't understand everything : Mrgreen:, even if I'm not blonde ...)

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by Christophe » 04/12/09, 12:20

nutt wrote:But it's not worse than a simple one !!!!


No worse but it's just the same: cold / hot air instead of arriving through the natural "leaks" of the house, it comes through the CMV ...

I am ultra against the CMVs whether single or double because the double, contrary to what one can hear by "specialists" of energy does not create energy.

A double-flow CMV is NOT and will NEVER be a means of heating .... It is simply a way of reducing losses compared to a single-flow CMV ... and in the best of cases better broadcasting these losses recovered in the house ...

If the CMV bothers you so much, nothing prevents it from being cut or put on a hygrometer ...

The natural ventilation of the houses can be sufficient (it has been for centuries right? We have no CMV ...) and if not put it on a weekly DIN programmer which would activate it just a few hours and preferably the day when the T ° are the highest ...

Here is one: https://www.econologie.com/shop/programm ... p-535.html
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aerialcastor
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by aerialcastor » 04/12/09, 12:53

Hello,


I think Logic12 wanted to respond to an existing discussion. If I remember correctly a short time ago wanted to put a vmc upside down behind radiators to preheat the air.



And I too find you very severe apart from nutt, with whom I agree.

The solution offered by Logic is a VMI, and adjusting it can bring some energy reductions compared to a simple flow.
Everyone seems to think that the double flow is the panacea (it makes me think a little about the PAC at times) but it is not the case. To amortize it economically and ecologically (ie in gray and primary energy) it is necessary to be in a region with a harsh and long winter. And above all a very waterproof envelope to avoid air exchange with the outside through leaks from the envelope.

Why VMI is cool : Cheesy: ?

It puts the house in overpressure, no problem of draft for the boilers and wood stove.
We can easily put an air sensor before blowing it, (or recover the air from under the roof, it's a big cheap sensor), in summer we can connect a Canadian well.
The house is overpressure, the parasitic air leaks are less annoying.

The best is of course to connect the ventilation to a hygrostat.
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by nutt » 04/12/09, 13:39

Christophe wrote:The natural ventilation of the houses can be sufficient (it has been for centuries, right? We have no CMV ...)


I agree ! But we have a wet room so we will try to improve that by a little ventilation. We are studying the question (well, I'm studying the question ... : Mrgreen: )

aerialcastor wrote:The best is of course to connect the ventilation to a hygrostat.

You mean that the insufflation mouth is only triggered when the humidity is high.
Imagine in my bathroom, I blow the air in the next room (it's a heated room but rather a technical room, ah old houses!) And I place the hygrostat in the bathroom so that it can detect humidity? Where can I find a hygrostat and how does it plug into the motor of the "vmc upside down"? (my DIY limits are quickly reached : Mrgreen: )

Thank you in advance !
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by Christophe » 04/12/09, 14:00

There are fans at 45-50 € equipped with a hygrostat (on the front) ... you can even find them for less. You don't need more to evacuate the humidity from your bathroom ...

There are also VMC kits at 70-80 € with hygrostat (located in the "central" box that is usually placed in the attic or a closet so I don't see much interest but hey ...)
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