Can I do without heating?

Heating, insulation, ventilation, VMC, cooling ... short thermal comfort. Insulation, wood energy, heat pumps but also electricity, gas or oil, VMC ... Help in choosing and implementation, problem solving, optimization, tips and tricks ...
gisier
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Can I do without heating?




by gisier » 04/07/10, 09:43

Hello, having posted a question a little while ago on the heating mode to choose, I am rebounding today because I am going on another formula.

I describe my "future" new house: MOB 200mm with wooden cladding, normally insulated with 200mm of cellulose wadding + 200mm mineral wool in the attic (if budget ok it will be +), insulated slab below and above under the tiling screed .

I hope to dispense with heating by insattalling a vmc double flow connected to a Canadian well, that is to say in outside air, I would have an air at minimum 15 °. Add to that the solar gains; approximately 10m² of south-facing windows. (I still have to see the quality of the chassis).

In short, a friend told me that he did not plan to provide heating in his house (a renovated hyper hyper insulated) by counting on this vmc / pcanadian couple. He would only add extra convesters.

What do you think, some work like this? Are there independent professionals who study this and could guarantee it to me?

The choice is important because until a week ago, I was planning to pay 16000 euros for a gas heating installation.
If this other solution is validated, I invest in a few convectors and a cumulus for water, I calculated: around 10 euros in savings at the start.

Thank you for this long Sunday reading !!
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by oiseautempete » 04/07/10, 09:59

It seems to me that you forgot an essential parameter: the geographic location ... if to do without heating is perhaps possible in regions little exposed to extreme temperatures like Brittany, it is not the same at altitude or in a continental climate where the delta of t ° exceeds 50 ° between the maximum / minimum extremes ...
It is nevertheless necessary to provide in all cases radiant panels for certain areas such as the bathroom ... (not convectors that eat up a max but only heat the ceiling ...)
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by Did67 » 04/07/10, 11:26

Indeed, we should see the climate!

Like that, with a ladle:

1) even in a passive house, heating cannot be completely dispensed with in "ordinary" regions (I am not talking about the Balearics)

2) you are very, very far from the passive house when it comes to insulation; pif like that, you're just "normal isolation nowadays"

3) a Canadian well is not strictly speaking a means of heating (unless you agree to live around 12 ° C); it is a preheating of the incoming air (in winter)

4) a VMC DF is not really a means of heating either; it means losing fewer calories due to the renewal of air (recovering about 80% of the calories normally "thrown" due to the renewal of air) ...

Conclusion: except to work a lot to collect solar calories, and to store these calories over periods = longer foreseeable period without sun, the account will not be there

or except still overflowing activity permanently generating enough heaters (like bakery - ovens permanently lit) ...

I repeat: all that, like that, quickly, at random!
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by elephant » 04/07/10, 12:49

It is very possible to heat all winter with 2 buckets of coal. You put them at the bottom of the cellar stairs, and when you're cold, you go up and down about twenty times. :D

Let's not forget that electricity is expensive energy.
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by sen-no-sen » 04/07/10, 14:03

To do without heating in winter, the Provençal / Canadian well will not be enough as mentioned Did67.
It is a way to keep your house frost-free in winter, and an excellent device for "air conditioning" in summer.
To be autonomous in terms of heating, without using fuel or electricity, you would need a solar thermal recovery device.
A greenhouse attached to the south face of a house overlooking a wall with thermal inertia makes it possible to play its role, however this type of device is to be envisaged from construction.
A fireplace with an expensive insert can be expensive and is a great way to heat.

Otherwise there is the Toumo, Tibetan method to resist the great cold, using the internal energy of the body!
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by Did67 » 04/07/10, 17:30

sen-no-sen wrote:
A fireplace with an expensive insert can be expensive and is a great way to heat.



I do not share this opinion: average to mediocre efficiency, little inertia, regulation by "suffocation" leading to very polluting combustion and a drop in efficiency ...

For me, it is a pleasure more than anything else ...

A stone stove is already better ...

Pellet stove, why not ...
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by dedeleco » 04/07/10, 17:33

See the whole site with its advice and opinions:
http://www.fiabitat.com/construction-maison-passive.php

The well insulated house even without a Canadian well does not need a gas boiler at 16000 € but an electric or gas backup heating, at 1000 € because looking for a maximum efficiency saves 10% in heating energy (100 € per year?) and multiplies by 10 investment in boiler and maintenance !!

The ideal is that on reliability with the different versions.

One possibility is to heat the Canadian well with thermal solar panels in summer and circulation of the exchange fluid to recover this excess heat in autumn, even in winter, if the Canadian well is deep enough and big enough !!
In addition these panels directly heat the house in winter !!


The heat diffuses slowly in the ground and therefore can be retained for 6 months in depth (2m and less if well-insulated surface).

It all depends on your region, if you have good insolation in winter and summer?

The problem is to find competent and trustworthy installers in your area, because these solutions are unconventional.
List the passive house specialists.
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by sen-no-sen » 04/07/10, 19:33

Did67 wrote:
sen-no-sen wrote:
A fireplace with an expensive insert can be expensive and is a great way to heat.



I do not share this opinion: average to mediocre efficiency, little inertia, regulation by "suffocation" leading to very polluting combustion and a drop in efficiency ...

For me, it is a pleasure more than anything else ...

A stone stove is already better ...

Pellet stove, why not ...


The problem with the pellet stove is the pellets.
With a fireplace or a stove, you can burn wood, recover in the forest, and heat for free!

The classic chimney (with or without insert) has a big drawback: it often gets huge heat nearby, while in the other rooms it freezes.
But nothing prevents improving the system, by recovering part of the heat via CF ducts parallel to the central duct, in order to redistribute a large part of the heat in the rest of the house.
Of course, all of its measures are to be implemented during construction or renovation.
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by hic » 04/07/10, 19:52

dedeleco wrote:See the whole site with its advice and opinions:
http://www.fiabitat.com/construction-maison-passive.php

One possibility is to [b] heat the Canadian well with thermal solar panels in summer and circulation of the exchange fluid to recover this excess heat in autumn, even in winter, if the Canadian well is deep enough and big enough !!
In addition these panels heat the house directly in winter

hi dedeleco

to heat the Canadian well,
plug it into a chimney which will provide free suction
all summer

and if the Canadian well is shallow cover it in the fall,
a black tarpaulin to store and retain solar energy,
and protect the ground from the wind.
Leave the tarp until spring, the area above the well will be less cold, more suitable for gardening
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by gisier » 04/07/10, 22:13

Good evening everyone.
I then specify that the house will be located in the north (59) and its surface is 165m².

I repeat that the Canadian well will be coupled to the vmc, I do not invent anything but the temperature in the house will be minimum 15 °.


That said, how can I do without an expensive installation even if I have to use elec or wood?



please
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