Zibro Carmen Pellet Stove at 1500 € TTC?

[swift2540]

He has ~ 20min left to understand and find

[Christophe]

Didn't even see you hello time ? with the evil that I have given myself

Rolalala ... it flies high there ...

Already you should have done 10 times cuckoo!

[moby25]

bernard -> currently in DIY superstore, I buy my woodstock pellets for € 3,90, the same price as the local dealer where I bought my stove.

[Christophe]

With us all the bricos have been selling pellets for 3 or 4 years.

3.90 € for the 15 kg bag it's expensive but hey ... apparently it's the "standard" and "surprisingly" fixed price ... whatever the seller or the producer ...

Relative to energy 15 kg * 5 kWh / kg = 75 kWh gross energy at 3.90 = 0.052 € kWh corrected by the efficiency of the installation, say 85% (this gives a useful energy price) at 0.06 € / kWh compared to price of gas or electric heating in bi-hourly for example ...

Per ton it gives 1000/15 * 3.90 = 260 € / ton and that gives a fuel oil price of 60 cts equivalent.

I have already told you about our little personal experience I believe.

In winter 2008, we paid more than that by buying a pallet of bags of pellets (pay attention to the order of the words ) delivery of 750 kg of pellets directly to the local producer.

These pellets are not even DIN, I would go to see this manufacturer of the corner, na!

We also tried 1 bag of hardwood pellets (85% I think), so brown. It takes longer.

[moby25]

At the local brico, I had never paid attention but hey before I had no stove either

Those sold are woodstock, and according to their technical documentation the standard is above DIN +.

The rika stove requires at least DIN +.

But I noticed that depending on the bags, the amount of dust was not the same.

For example, woodstock bought at the dealer of my stove, were much dustier than those of the brico.

My first bags were "holtzpellet", very light and very dusty pellets. Yet they were "only" DIN +

[bernardd]

3,9 € / 15kg is 0,26 € / kg or 260 € / tonne, so 0,26 € / 5KWh = 0,052 € / KWh.

200 € / tonne is 0,2 € / kg, therefore 0,04 € / KWh.

30% difference between a retail purchase and a wholesale purchase (in the lower end of the price range) is customary.

In both cases, we are still 2 times cheaper than electricity.

[moby25]

Personally, I have never seen pellets at € 200 per tonne ... unfortunately ...

Indeed, if we take into account the initial investment, the chimney sweeping, the difference between the electric off-peak hour is not obvious.

[Christophe]

But I noticed that depending on the bags, the amount of dust was not the same.

Good remark, it depends on the number of times the bag has been handled ...

Personally, I have never seen pellets at € 200 per tonne

Another (recent) factory near us sells pellets at 160 € per tonne for individuals according to the latest information I have. They are DIN them ... but:
a) they do not condition
b) they do not deliver

a) + b) = the only way to buy it is to go with your trailer and load / unload at your place "in bulk" (avoid doing this when there is a risk of rain or fog !! ). For information, in Belgium, it is 450 kg authorized load per trailer ... it is very little!

So you have to have a friend who has a 2 Tons "big braked trailer" license ... to go ... that helps.

Personally, I have never been there but if I needed pellets in the future I would try these!

Indeed, if we take into account the initial investment, the chimney sweeping, the difference between the electric off-peak hour is not obvious.

Yes that's what I was trying to say but, heating with wood is not just an "economical" gesture ... fortunately!

[moby25]

Yes, as I had said in another post, I also had to heat myself with something other than electric.

We must not forget either the price of the subscription which is not negligible. Especially with electric heating, you have to take a more expensive subscription to support the load of the radiators.

I had a 6Kva and it often cut. If I had stayed in electric, I would have had to take a 9kva which represents an additional cost of 150 € per year.

[Christophe]

Yes, at "real" cost, it costs between 0.11 and 0.13 € / average kWh in France ... So pellets are still interesting. But as you said it is necessary to take into account the depreciation of the investment. So to see the lifespan of the respective gear ...

You would have to do the math.

If we go down this path, I would have a question: How long does it take to pay for a rika pellet stove (€ 4000) compared to a zibro (€ 1500)? Assuming of course that the 2 materials have the same reliability and that they do not break down on the perid of profitability (which remains to be demonstrated) ... here is a calculation at the value of the money and the price of the fuel constant therefore simplified.

Answer: if we take + 15% average yield for the rika, each useful kWh is therefore 15% cheaper with the rika!

Take the price stated above: 0.052 € / gross kWh.
Price kWh useful with the rika (95%): 0.055 €
Price kWh useful with the zibro (80%): 0.065 €

Difference: 0.01 € / kWh.

To make the difference in investment profitable, 2500 €, it is therefore necessary to "use" 2500 / 0.01 = 250 kWh or about 000 tons (55% of average yield) of pellets in the stove so that the Rika becomes more economically interesting than the Zibro !!

If we assume that the stove consumes 3 Tons per year (i.e. 3000/15 = 200 bags, at 1 bag per day it's 200 days which is already a lot) it takes 55/3 = 18.3 years to make the difference in the price profitable. 'purchase!

It's quite huge ... I'm not sure that neither the Rika nor the Zibro still work after 18 years with their original parts (mainly because of the electronic management ...) ...

The rika can be economically interesting if it breaks down less quickly and spare parts will be available in 20 years ...

I'm not a diviner, I don't have the answer to this. But taking a rika is also more comfortable. Once again there is not only the economic aspect ... to be taken into account.

By the way, I read that rika had models without a blower (noise), is that the case with yours?

ps: this reasoning is valid with any pellet stove I'm not particularly trying to "target" rika who, I sincerely think, is the top in terms of stove!

And I think that in terms of performance / quality / price the rika are very well placed, see other examples of stoves at 4000 € here: https://www.econologie.com/forums/comparatif ... t6429.html

Stoves at 4000 € which do not exceed 90% of efficiency is frankly limit ... fuck up the customer!