hydraulic pellet stove in oversized Justice

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mariepoussin
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hydraulic pellet stove in oversized Justice




by mariepoussin » 11/01/16, 14:16

Hello,
In 2012, we installed a hydraulic pellet stove in our 95 m2 house.
There were many faults on the part of our installer and we also suspect an oversize of the device (14,8 KW).
We had also created a post on this subject at the time.
Since then we are in the process of legal expertise.
the expert has just given us his provisional report after 2,5 years of waiting !!!
It justifies the correct sizing of the stove with a simplified thermal study found on a radiator manufacturer's site, and with a DPE that it itself estimated from a consumption estimated by itself ...

I just contacted a thermal study office, which offers me a thermal study of the house with thermography and calculation of the losses room by room taking into account their characteristics and insulation.
The cost is around 550 E. Suddenly I hesitate because it is expensive and I am not sure of the usefulness ...


My question is: when do we talk about oversizing legally?

If the thermician finds 11, 12 or 13 KW when we have installed 14,8 KW, are we talking about oversizing?

If yes, what recourse?
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by Christophe » 11/01/16, 14:46

No from 13 to 15kW it is not over sizing especially that a pellet stove can regulate well!

We can help you make this diagnosis for free here.

Do a research, many subjects speak of thermal balance. There are even spreadsheets.

15 kW of losses (calculated I recall 19 ° inside and X ° outside, with X depending on your place of residence = lowest possible weather temperature) that is not much for a house. It is very little even!

Now can it be a stove in addition to other things?
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by Gaston » 11/01/16, 14:55

mariepoussin wrote:My question is: when do we talk about oversizing legally?

If the thermician finds 11, 12 or 13 KW when we have installed 14,8 KW, are we talking about oversizing?
In my opinion, no (nevertheless, I am not a lawyer)

In terms of heating, we almost never undersize, so if the thermician shows that it needed 11 kW and that the lower boiler model is 9 kW, it was normal to install the 14,8 kW model.

Furthermore, for a legal action, it seems to me that it would be necessary to prove that the installer knew or could know that the power required was much lower.
If you did not communicate to the installer a thermal study before the sizing of the installation, he must have made an estimate himself and the report of the legal expert shows on the contrary that the value estimated by the installer n was not an outlier.
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by dirk pitt » 11/01/16, 15:18

Christophe wrote:
15 kW of losses (calculated I recall 19 ° inside and X ° outside, with X depending on your place of residence = lowest possible weather temperature) that is not much for a house. It is very little even!


it is normal without more, I would say for an "old" house of this surface.
I have a house from 1955 not very well insulated and my pellet boiler is 12kw and goes very well (rarely thoroughly except during reduced / comfort passages)

an RT2012 house would do much better.
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by Gaston » 11/01/16, 15:27

dirk pitt wrote:I have a house from 1955 not super well insulated and my pellet boiler is 12kw and goes very well (rarely thoroughly except during reduced / comfort passages)
The boiler must also be able to provide heating if it is -10 ° outside (and -20 ° at night) for a week (as in January 1985).

If there are alternative heating means, we can actually size the boiler for milder temperatures, but we must also inform the installer, otherwise it is normal for him to size the power to meet the coldest conditions .
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by mariepoussin » 11/01/16, 15:58

Our hydraulic stove modulates between 4,7 and 14,8 KW.
Currently he does 4 to 5 cycles per day.

I have the impression that the minimum is already too high, and for 4 years, we have never seen the stove operate at maximum speed, just at startup.

It is for this reason that we think it is oversized.

Our house is terraced by one of its large and one of its small sides.

Other installers (in the context of contradictory quotes) recommend instead a power around 11,5 KW.

is the installer not responsible for the correct sizing?
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by mariepoussin » 11/01/16, 17:13

Small precision, the 4 to 5 cycles per day are triggered between 6h and 21h30. At night, with a low set temperature, the stove does not fire.
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by Grelinette » 12/01/16, 12:10

Hello,

I think that the power value of a stove is very relative and launching into a debate of suspicion of "oversizing" is very uncertain and lost in advance, especially in court ... and above all it will be an expensive process in expertises and second opinions, especially since the criticism is due to a functioning superior to that expected, therefore rather in the positive. (The reverse would have been more legitimate and understandable!).

We recently changed the wood stove to go from an old wood stove with a given power of 9 Kw by a new one of 10 kw with new features (double combustion, green flame label, efficiency> 75%, etc.) .

Although we note that there are some advantages, it is very difficult to quantify them precisely because many parameters influence the operation of the stove (outside temperature and humidity, quality and nature of the burnt wood, ...).

It also turns out that certain data appearing on the technical sheet of the stove made by the manufacturer turns out to be more "commercial and theoretical" than concrete. In fact, the installer cannot be held responsible if the installed stove does not give exactly the expected results.
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by Gaston » 12/01/16, 12:27

It only works 4 to 5 times a day ... so what? (my gas boiler only starts twice a day at the moment).

Does it consume more?
Does it wear out more?
Was it significantly more expensive than a less powerful stove?

In short, even if you prove an over-sizing of the equipment, what would be the damage :?:
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by Did67 » 12/01/16, 12:38

The "uses of the trade" seem to me (from memory) to be:

- the heater must satisfy the need as it results from as cold as possible at the place (nearest weather station) [there is surely a jurisprudence which says if it is decennial - has a probability to occur once every 10 years - or centennial - once in 100 years] [at me, it must be -20 or -25 °]

- it is customary for the heating engineer to take a margin of 20% more (in the absence of precise calculations by a BET and a precise specification), to take into account the fact that his assessment is made at random ...

So I think the trial is lost in advance.

My pellet boiler does I don't know how many (maybe 20?) Cycles per day. It is not all the same the fault of the installer if it is mild, that I have flowers in my garden, that my raspberries, reject, and that I eat, in Alsace, at 340 m, in this moment, salads "oak leaves" that I produce in the ground without greenhouse, without tunnel, without any protection!
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