hydraulic pellet stove in oversized Justice

[Philippe Schutt]

In fact, we had launched a procedure following many advice from you on the forum in 2012 (what recourse to boiler oversizing?).

Most of the speakers were rather against it, I remember.

I understood that it was better to undersize this type of device for optimal operation.

The main heating is not undersized.

So I understand that it will be difficult to highlight a possible over-sizing?

Yes and no. A heating contractor has an obligation of result. Finding out after the fact is legally sufficient.

For the moment the expert highlights:
- inadequate regulation constitutes an error in the design / construction of the installation with a clearly negative impact on the comfort of the accommodation,

Regulation will necessarily go through a balloon and thermostatic valves to be effective.

- the absence of air supply constitutes an error in the realization of the installation likely to generate combustion faults,

yes, this is professional misconduct.

- the interlocking of the inverted connection pipe constitutes a production error,

little game, in Germany and Italy it's just the opposite. it is discussed.

- smoke pipe in diameter 125 instead of 150 recommended by the manufacturer, this non-compliance constitutes an installation error,

No. Only the result counts. If the fumes are evacuated properly you can not fault anything, and with 125 I am sure there is no problem for this stove. Maybe even too much draft, hence the noise?

- the sound intensity of the stove located under the master bedroom constitutes an installation error or at least a provision contrary to common sense,

I am surprised by the sound level, Thermorossi is generally rather discreet

- the position of the thermostat located in the most wasteful room constitutes an installation error,

easy to arrange, and moreover it is discussed.

- the absence of balancing constitutes a design error.

yes but are you sure there is no balancing tee?

There were big disparities in the size of the radiators compared to the volumes, especially in the baby's room. I had advised you to contact the ademe or its equivalent to make you subsidize the thermal diagnosis and to put a balloon and thermostatic valves.
In the stove manual it is clearly stated: "Installation without an accumulator tank is possible under certain conditions but not recommended for ease of use."
and also: "In the absence of an accumulator: installation of thermostatic valves on radiators prohibited, radiator diffusion power greater than the minimum boiler power, connection to a heated floor prohibited".
So your heating engineer is deemed to have known what he was doing.
What you can get from a court is the establishment of an effective regulation, with ball and thermostatic valves.

[Christophe]

The installer announced 38 decibels, manufacturer's instructions supported.
Noise was one of our main concerns.
Upon start-up, a high noise level was observed with peaks at 63 decibels when the stove is operating at Max. I point out that there are no fans.

Indeed, it makes a lot of difference there!

If it is proven (i.e. measure made exactly under the same conditions) I think that a recourse against the manufacturer is possible ...

[Gaston]

If it is proven (i.e. measure made exactly under the same conditions) I think that a recourse against the manufacturer is possible ...

Yes, by verifying that the noise comes from the stove itself (no noise of air circulation in the exhaust ducts or water in the pipes ...) and that the installation complies with the manufacturer's recommendations .
Can't the absence of air supply cause additional noise for example?

[Did67]

@philippe schutt

I generally agree.

but:

- it is difficult to "prove" an over-dimensioning, unlike under-dimensioning!

For under-dimensioning, it is "enough" to note that the stove does not manage to heat sufficiently by a great cold snap ...

For over-sizing, we can always argue that the "extreme cold" in question is not the minimum possible at this location; it is likely that in a weather archive we will find at - 24 ° in such and such a place ...

- are you sure that a fitting which "narrows" the duct (exit 150 on a device / reduction to 125) is tolerated by the DTU? The reverse, yes, no problem ???


Sensitivity to noise is one of the most complicated things there is: see the famous "drop of water" which "plies" all night long and which has the power to prevent sleep; negligible decibel level but maximum effect! It is always the "sustained noise" that bothers ... So it is clear that if you are not satisfied with a stove, its noise becomes unbearable. Like a neighbor who you think is a jerk. He can't pee without it enraging us!

[NB: that said, 38 dB announced seems incredible to me; 38 decibel, that must be the "noise" in a quiet room; that one does not hear more a stove ????? Even a blazing fireplace must exceed 38 dB ??? After that, it is also true that there are several decibel scales, I don't quite remember how it works, these scales, which in addition are logarithmic, which is not easy to understand - we tends to reason in "linear"]

[Christophe]

I divided the subject about the sound level: wood pellet stove: noise and noise level

[mariepoussin]

Otherwise another question, if I add the power of all of our radiators, we arrive at a total of 9700 w.
Is this consistent with the power of our stove which modulates between 3,8 and 11,6 kW with water?
Isn't there a sizing problem?

[Christophe]

It is completely coherent yes!

I would even say that it is slightly undersized by counting the "losses" in the pipes!

The power of a radiator is generally given (except low temperature radiators) for water between 90 ° C and 70 ° C return and 19 ° C ambient (I think) ... if the outward and return are less 90 ° C / 70 ° C (which is already hot!) then the power of your radiators is less than that given.

This also means that the pipes at 90 ° C and 70 ° C contribute to heating the home and depending on their length this can be far from negligible in terms of power.

Have you measured the T ° return and return to the stove? This can be done with this kind of thermometer: https://www.econologie.com/shop/thermom ... p-326.html

[SixK]

9700W for 95m2, it seems a lot to me, I am around 8500W for around 120m2 house of about 87, but hey I am in electric. I do not know if we can compare and what are the preco for hydroelectric.

SixK