Save at least 20% of central heating fuel

Heating, insulation, ventilation, VMC, cooling ... short thermal comfort. Insulation, wood energy, heat pumps but also electricity, gas or oil, VMC ... Help in choosing and implementation, problem solving, optimization, tips and tricks ...
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Obamot
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by Obamot » 27/11/12, 14:13

Image
Image

Given these data, as an example, I see it like this:

Wikipedia wrote:Animation: temperature according to thermal conductivity
resolution method based on Fourier series

Consider a domain limited by the two planes x = 0 and x = L.

Image

Propagation of heat by conduction in a limited range 0 <x <L.

The two boundaries of the domain are maintained at constant temperature. The height at a given point indicates the value of the temperature at that point.

This will therefore be different depending on the fluid used.

So according to this principle: the curve cannot be the same between a heat transfer fluid and another water compound since the conduction (as well as other parameters) differ. We could not then observe symmetry in a graph, amha.
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Alain G
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by Alain G » 27/11/12, 15:07

Well I will give it back!


Why did my beauf who had a smaller house than mine of identical construction consumed 10 cords of wood while I consumed 6 ???

Why did I reduce consumption by 35% with a hot air oil furnace ???

Why simply by moving my electric hot water tank I saved $ 300 on my bill over a year ???


Alfa-x


The problem here is that we are not talking about electricity to heat which would have no impact on economy but of heating that lets some of the calories pass through the chimney, the fact of extracting more calories in hot gas saves quite a bit and I know what I'm talking about!

Measurements of chimney temperatures with and without this liquid would be much more convincing than these graphs!

If we withdraw more calories there will inevitably be a higher temperature of the circulation liquid which will transmit more certainly but which will not transmit everything to the heaters and this is why it seems difficult to understand for certain that the temperature is raised. on the cold return but that has nothing to do with the coolant, it will be more because this temperature is simply higher!

And everything is linked, the boiler starts less ...

Your product is poorly presented!


For those interested in how I could save on the 3 questions above, there is nothing esoteric but simply efficiency!

I'll leave you wondering why!
: Mrgreen:


Obamot stop doing your Dede!
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Alain
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Gaston
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by Gaston » 27/11/12, 15:48

Alain G wrote:the fact of extracting more calories from the hot gas allows a fairly significant saving and I know what I'm talking about!
The question is to know if we can obtain this result simply by modifying the heat transfer liquid, knowing that water is one of the liquids that can transport the most energy per unit of mass. :?:

Alain G wrote:Measurements of chimney temperatures with and without this liquid would be much more convincing than these graphs!
Absolutely, for a complete energy balance, it would be necessary to simultaneously measure the gas flow rate, the heat transfer liquid flow rate, the gas temperature in the stack, the temperature of the liquid at the boiler outlet and the temperature of the return liquid, fault from which there will always be missing information.

Alain G wrote:If we withdraw more calories there will inevitably be a higher temperature of the circulation liquid which will transmit more certainly but which will not transmit everything to the heaters and this is why it seems difficult to understand for certain that the temperature is raised. on the cold return but that has nothing to do with the coolant, it will be more because this temperature is simply higher!
This is how you interpret the following sentence :?:
Alfa-x wrote:rises faster and higher in temperature than water AND cools less quickly than water.
I naively thought that measurements had been taken on the product in a simple container, not just in the complex framework of a boiler connected to a heating installation.

If I did a study at a university, I would start there, it seems to me ...
Last edited by Gaston the 27 / 11 / 12, 16: 04, 1 edited once.
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Did67
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by Did67 » 27/11/12, 15:48

Alain G wrote:
If more calories are withdrawn there will necessarily be a higher temperature of the circulation liquid which will transmit more certainly but which will not transmit everything to the heaters


To better "wring out" the combustion gases, which is in fact decisive on the efficiency of combustion boilers, the temperatures in the boiler circuits, at the exchangers, must be lowered ...

Without going as far as condensation, the best yields are obtained by "low temperature" boilers.

The condensation is something else enocre: if we go below 55 °, and singularly if we manage to go down to 30 °, we "drain" the combustion gases as much as possible + o benefits from the heat released by condensation of water vapor.

For my part, my condensing pellet boiler works without gas which leaves the boiler at around 120 °; they enter the condenser at this temperature; they come out of the condenser around 33/35 °. The return water from the chuaffant floor circled in the opposite direction, and arrived at around 28 °. The water in the boiler body is between 65 ° and 75 °.

So to increase efficiency, it is in the interest of operating at the lowest possible temperature in the boiler (without going to condensation if the boiler is not designed for, otherwise there is a risk of corrosion) ...
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Obamot
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by Obamot » 27/11/12, 15:54

Alain G: what I wanted to say is that it is impossible for him to obtain a symmetrical curve between his fluid and water. And I believe that you have still added elements that go in the same direction!

Heating was in fact more of the domain of Dedeleco (you miss you that much : Cheesy: ), no, there it is simple logic, so there is little chance that I take up his "torch" : Mrgreen:
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by Mathew » 27/11/12, 18:50

To answer alfa-x simply:
Water, glycol, or whatever liquid you put in the pipes is a means of transporting energy, not energy in itself. The liquid will not produce energy which is not supplied by the burner.
To reduce energy consumption by 20%, demand must be reduced by 20% or boiler efficiency increased by 20%.
This is obviously very hard when you have a 90 or 95% efficiency condensing boiler on PCS. : Mrgreen:

And to quibble: the losses in the pipes are not really losses, since the heat thus transmitted is still used to heat the building. I prefer to speak of energy difference.

To make a heat balance, I learned to use 5 or 10% of energy difference between the heat produced by the boiler and that emitted by the radiators.

For the anti-lime and cleaning properties of your liquid, it reminds me of VW G12 coolant that I use in my truck.
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by Rabbit » 27/11/12, 20:51

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by Mathew » 28/11/12, 01:13

No, that bottle, which you find at VW.
http://www.audizine.com/forum/showthrea ... ost4760875

You mix with demineralized or tap water in the proportions you want for cold protection, and it keeps the properties for life, and does not change color over time.
My truck is 10 years old, the expansion tank is nickel, no traces of dirt.
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by Did67 » 28/11/12, 07:53

Mathew wrote:
And to quibble: the losses in the pipes are not really losses, since the heat thus transmitted is still used to heat the building. I prefer to speak of energy difference.



We agree.

When, in my development comparable to yours, I mentioned these losses, I should have specified: losses in the pipes located outside the volumes to be chuaffed (mainly the piping in the basement, which we sometimes see not insulated! ).
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by Gaston » 28/11/12, 11:01

Did67 wrote:When, in my development comparable to yours, I mentioned these losses, I should have specified: losses in the pipes located outside the volumes to be chuaffed (mainly the piping in the basement, which we sometimes see not insulated! ).
Just use a liquid that does not cool in the basement, but fully retains its heat for radiators : Mrgreen:
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