Save at least 20% of central heating fuel

Heating, insulation, ventilation, VMC, cooling ... short thermal comfort. Insulation, wood energy, heat pumps but also electricity, gas or oil, VMC ... Help in choosing and implementation, problem solving, optimization, tips and tricks ...
Alain G
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by Alain G » 26/11/12, 17:36

Recovering more calories at the source allows greater efficiency!

Where I hang it is simply on the "lose less calories" which is in my opinion a gourd in the comment of our new friend even if inevitably by recovering more the return temperature of the circuit will be appreciably higher.

In my opinion yes it is possible to reduce its consumption but it has simply been poorly formulated!
8)
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Alfa-x
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by Alfa-x » 26/11/12, 17:38

The liquid rises faster and higher in temperature than water, how would you explain that on thermostat 4 we have water at 60 ° otherwise?

The burner starts more often but much shorter, but you know very well that it is the rise in temperature which consumes the most energy, not the maintenance at temperature.

To gain 30% per cycle you inevitably save as much energy, and as much CO² less in the atmosphere ...

Gaston wrote:
Obamot wrote:As for the caloporous properties, I do not know,
Anyway, the function of the liquid is to transfer calories from the boiler to the room to be heated.

The fact of transporting them "faster" or "better" can in no way result in having more calories in the room than what is produced by the boiler ...
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Did67
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by Did67 » 26/11/12, 17:38

Obamot wrote:Bein without anti-limescale system, a house that is 50 years old in a normal hardness water zone, if you are renovating and the pipes did not have an electronic or other anti-limescale system, they go to the dumpster, and it is not science fiction:.


Of course, on water pipes, and especially hot water pipes. And it's worse in the water heater. There, no one seriously contests.

It suffices to "add up" the m3 of water that passes through it throughout a lifetime ... So yes, there are deposits. As in a washing machine (although unlike the advertisement, this does not damage the coils, but the joints).

Wherever the water is renewed, there are deposits that overlap over time, little by little.

Another thing is a heating circuit, where, even if you have to refill the level once a year (otherwise, it's abnormal), it's still the same water going around in circles. And therefore the limestone is deposited once and then there is more (well, there are some left, but above the solubility threshold therefore no new deposits).

For the rest, if there are still naive people who ignore the 1st principle of thermodynamics (no energy that is lost, no energy that is created) and who thinks that a heat carrier can change the heat balance, well they believe in the denser, more fluid, more liquid liquid, what do I know ...

[Come on, popur ire, that good old joke.

The gentleman buys a car. And now the seller explains: with this spoiler, 10% savings ... And then the brand new direct injection engine: 25% savings ... Special rims, with "Energy" tires: again 8% savings ... New hyperfluid transmission: 12% savings ... Etc ... Etc ...

And the client concludes: "With that, I'm going to have only one problem after all!"
The salesperson: "Oh well, and which one?"
The customer: "My tank will overflow!"
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Alfa-x
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by Alfa-x » 26/11/12, 17:49

No I confirm that the water / product mixture drops bcp less quickly in t ° than water alone, it is not a gourd and I keep the graphics / data of the heating training school available to whoever wishes . (measurements taken for 150 minutes at the outlet of the boiler and at the outlet of the circuit before boiler return for both the water alone and for the mixture)


Alain G wrote:Recovering more calories at the source allows greater efficiency!

Where I hang it is simply on the "lose less calories" which is in my opinion a gourd in the comment of our new friend even if inevitably by recovering more the return temperature of the circuit will be appreciably higher.

In my opinion yes it is possible to reduce its consumption but it has simply been poorly formulated!
8)
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Alfa-x
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by Alfa-x » 26/11/12, 17:54

I have at your disposal the reports of all the university studies made in various European universities which demonstrate that yes.
I know it sounds too good to be true and that's why we give such a satisfaction guarantee.

Do not believe me but do not doubt our customers who testify ...


Did67 wrote:
Obamot wrote:Bein without anti-limescale system, a house that is 50 years old in a normal hardness water zone, if you are renovating and the pipes did not have an electronic or other anti-limescale system, they go to the dumpster, and it is not science fiction:.


Of course, on water pipes, and especially hot water pipes. And it's worse in the water heater. There, no one seriously contests.

It suffices to "add up" the m3 of water that passes through it throughout a lifetime ... So yes, there are deposits. As in a washing machine (although unlike the advertisement, this does not damage the coils, but the joints).

Wherever the water is renewed, there are deposits that overlap over time, little by little.

Another thing is a heating circuit, where, even if you have to refill the level once a year (otherwise, it's abnormal), it's still the same water going around in circles. And therefore the limestone is deposited once and then there is more (well, there are some left, but above the solubility threshold therefore no new deposits).

For the rest, if there are still naive people who ignore the 1st principle of thermodynamics (no energy that is lost, no energy that is created) and who thinks that a heat carrier can change the heat balance, well they believe in the denser, more fluid, more liquid liquid, what do I know ...

[Come on, popur ire, that good old joke.

The gentleman buys a car. And now the seller explains: with this spoiler, 10% savings ... And then the brand new direct injection engine: 25% savings ... Special rims, with "Energy" tires: again 8% savings ... New hyperfluid transmission: 12% savings ... Etc ... Etc ...

And the client concludes: "With that, I'm going to have only one problem after all!"
The salesperson: "Oh well, and which one?"
The customer: "My tank will overflow!"
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Christophe
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Re: Dear all ...

by Christophe » 26/11/12, 17:54

What you are criticized for is not improving the water .... but that you are talking about a different behavior when heating and cooling .... which contradicts the basic thermal ...

Alfa-x wrote:And I don't ask anyone to take my word for it but I will demonstrate it to whoever wants to see it.


Easy: share here the university studies that you cite :) (we have a file host if you need it, see link "Insert an image or a file on the forum, click here. "when you write a message)
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Alain G
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by Alain G » 26/11/12, 17:57

Alfa-x wrote:No I confirm that the water / product mixture drops bcp less quickly in t ° than water alone, it is not a gourd and I keep the graphics / data of the heating training school available to whoever wishes . (measurements taken for 150 minutes at the outlet of the boiler and at the outlet of the circuit before boiler return for both the water alone and for the mixture)


Alain G wrote:Recovering more calories at the source allows greater efficiency!

Where I hang it is simply on the "lose less calories" which is in my opinion a gourd in the comment of our new friend even if inevitably by recovering more the return temperature of the circuit will be appreciably higher.

In my opinion yes it is possible to reduce its consumption but it has simply been poorly formulated!
8)



Why no"?

That's what I said!

Either you don't understand or you want to contradict the only one who approves your performance!


by recovering more the return temperature of the circuit will be significantly higher.
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Criticism is good if added to some compliments.

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Gaston
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by Gaston » 26/11/12, 17:58

Alfa-x wrote:No I confirm that the water / product mixture drops bcp less quickly in t ° than water alone, it is not a gourd and I keep the graphics / data of the heating training school available to whoever wishes .
If the temperature drops less quickly than the water, it is either that it transfers less heat to the room to be heated or that it also rises more slowly (at the same burner power).

I'm curious to see the graphs (they obviously have to include the measurement of the consumption of the boiler).
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Gaston
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Re: Dear all ...

by Gaston » 26/11/12, 17:59

Christophe wrote:but that you speak of a different behavior to heating and cooling .... which contradicts the basic thermal ...
+1 :?
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Alain G
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by Alain G » 26/11/12, 18:02

Gaston wrote:
Alfa-x wrote:No I confirm that the water / product mixture drops bcp less quickly in t ° than water alone, it is not a gourd and I keep the graphics / data of the heating training school available to whoever wishes .
If the temperature drops less quickly than the water, it is either that it transfers less heat to the room to be heated or that it also rises more slowly (at the same burner power).

I'm curious to see the graphs (they obviously have to include the measurement of the consumption of the boiler).



You mark the right point!


There is actually less transfer of calories by saturation or skin effect on the surface of the heaters of the air which circulates there!
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Criticism is good if added to some compliments.

Alain

 


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