Rising moisture problem crawlspace design

[Obamot]

Stop sinking, will you ...

[aerialcastor]

I see at all how I sink well on the contrary since you like Dede gradually resume my arguments, (although you have fiercely contradicted them at the start, but that's a detail).
Finally everyone will agree to take the solutions that I had given from my first messages. It's just a shame to have to take 20 pages for this.

[moby25]

Sorry if I offended some, but it was not at all wanted ...

[dedeleco]

aerialcastor has never solved a physics problem with care and precision and never evaluates a clear order of magnitude, on the pretext that it is very complex, but nevertheless is peremptory in its misleading assertions.

Fed up !!

moby is lucky to have little humidity in its crawlspace, its only problem is its agglo wood which prohibits any humidity, and therefore that he is wary of any heavy and irreversible modification, based on peremptory assertions from anyone, not actually tested before, in early winter, which could lead to worsening instead of hoped for improvement (as I explained above).

We must consider all the details like a detective, especially his plastic should have condensation moisture from below coming from the ground, at least during the nights ???
A film on the concrete blocks allows to know also, by separating condensation and evaporation.
to the point of seeing that basic tests which make it possible to identify the causes are not made, nor observed, especially in winter. !!

[moby25]

There I carry out the tarpaulin test.

[aerialcastor]

aerialcastor has never solved a physics problem with care and precision and never evaluates a clear order of magnitude, on the pretext that it is very complex, but nevertheless is peremptory in its misleading assertions

Well go ahead, do it,
the calculation

[dedeleco]

Following this sentence:

aerialcastor has never solved a physics problem with care and precision and never evaluates a clear order of magnitude, on the pretext that it is very complex,

therefore aerialcastor admits with his answer:

Well go ahead, do it,
the calculation

that he is perfectly incapable of making such a calculation, whereas I have given basic references, the main guidelines and figures !!

therefore aerialcastor deflects to make this calculation, because it is incapable of it !!

aerialcastor asserts peremptorily and is unable to quantitatively prove its peremptory claims !!!

By the way if the partial vapor pressures balance so well, aerialcastor could explain clearly why the water vapor pressure is only rarely at its equilibrium value of 100% in the air we breathe, even in the crawlspace of moby !!

[aerialcastor]

Following this sentence:

aerialcastor has never solved a physics problem with care and precision and never evaluates a clear order of magnitude, on the pretext that it is very complex,

therefore aerialcastor admits with his answer:

Well go ahead, do it,
the calculation

that he is perfectly incapable of making such a calculation, whereas I have given basic references, the main guidelines and figures !!

therefore aerialcastor deflects to make this calculation, because it is incapable of it !!

I have already given my position on this type of calculation, and I tell you again clearly that it is impossible for me (and for everyone to do it by hand).
But you claim the opposite so prove it.

By the way if the partial vapor pressures balance so well, aerialcastor could explain clearly why the water vapor pressure is only rarely at its equilibrium value of 100% in the air we breathe, even in the crawlspace of moby !!

Oula that of confusion.
Water vapor pressure is not measured as a percentage. Your sentence makes no sense.
You may be talking about hygrometry which is the ratio between the partial pressure and the saturated vapor pressure (multiplied by 100 to have it as a percentage).
If we are at 100%, it means that there is condensation, therefore liquid water.
There is no reason for the equilibrium to be 100% RH since in this case there is no more water in the form of gas (vapor).
It is exactly the same principle as in a heat pipe, which makes the linen dry, or that a puddle evaporates: if the partial pressure of the gas above the liquid is lower than the saturated vapor pressure also called tension of vapor (which is in fact the maximum partial pressure, when this pressure is reached there is condensation), there is evaporation.

Thus to allow evaporation, the partial pressure of the air must be less than the vapor pressure. Vapor pressure is related to temperature. There are therefore two solutions, increase the temperature, or "change" the gas mixture above the liquid by a mixture whose partial pressure is lower.
In the case of a crawl space, the liquid is water and the gas mixture is air. We are not going to heat the crawl space continuously, however it is easy to change the air with ventilation.

[dedeleco]

Oula that confusion !!

I have already given my position on this type of calculation, and I will tell you again clearly that it is impossible for me (and for everyone to do it by hand).

well if, by hand helped by the computer (on which we type these texts) to calculate some basic operations with the formulas of wikipedia and other basic, whereas I knew the time when we did not have any computer almost (I started with the IBM computer at an astronomical price, shared between 1000 people, with punched cards and where forgetting a parenthesis took more than a day to see the package of punched cards coming back to be corrected !! on a computer 100 times less powerful than the one on our desk and a memory 10000 times smaller !!!!)
All this to say that aerialcastor has all the means to calculate in front of his nose, while I learned to calculate everything without a computer or calculators, just with the logarithm table and the slide rule !!
That's what I said, aerialcastor can not calculate anything without software where everything is chewed, even predigested, in software which he understands almost nothing, so that if the conditions of validity are not met, it does not sees only fire and crashes !! !! and he does not know how to reconcile his calculations by the orders of magnitudes of common sense !!

aerialcastor talks about balance:

This is the equilibrium of the partial vapor pressures.

however the pressure equilibrium of the water vapor in the air above the liquid water at given T is that of the humidity pressure at 100% for the given T !!
Below we are not in equilibrium, and aerialcastor is unable to explain why this balance is often not reached !!
The reason is the time required to reach this balance that aerialcastor cannot simply calculate !!
However, I have repeatedly put references to this kind of calculation !!!

aerialcastor says:

There is no reason for the equilibrium to be made at 100% RH since cases There is no reason for the equilibrium to be made at 100% RH since in this case there is no longer any water in the form of gas (vapor). .

and he has never walked in a cloud where the fog with 100% humidity to find that the peremptory statement at "this moment there is no more water in the form of gas (vapor)" is totally false, even nonsense, since he would remember being completely wet even under a raincoat thanks to this excess vapor (supersaturation with delay in condensation in addition) which condenses everywhere under the raincoats !!

The balance is 100%, below it is out of pressure balance, the liquid water evaporates and above 100% the water condenses on the nucleation sites (see the Wilson chamber, and the earth is a huge Wilson chamber lacking cloud nucleation sites, so that the climate varies according to the cosmic rays that bombard us)
http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chambre_%C3%A0_brouillard

Raz the bowl of aerialcastor !!

[aerialcastor]

well if, by hand helped by the computer (on which we type these texts) to calculate some basic operations with the formulas of wikipedia and other basic, whereas I knew the time when we did not have any computer almost (I started with the IBM computer at an astronomical price, shared between 1000 people, with punched cards and where forgetting a parenthesis took more than a day to see the package of punched cards coming back to be corrected !! on a computer 100 times less powerful than the one on our desk and a memory 10000 times smaller !!!!)
All this to say that aerialcastor has all the means to calculate in front of its nose, while I learned to calculate everything without a computer or calculators, just with the logarithm table and the slide rule !!
That's what I said, aerialcastor can not calculate anything without software where everything is chewed, even predigested, in software which he understands almost nothing, so that if the conditions of validity are not met, it does not sees only fire and crashes !! !! and he does not know how to reconcile his calculations by the orders of magnitudes of common sense !!

As you are used to, it should be very easy for you.
So I don't see why you don't post your calculation?
Unless you don't know how to do it and you don't want to admit it.

however the pressure equilibrium of the water vapor in the air above the liquid water at given T is that of the humidity pressure at 100% for the given T !!
Below we are not in balance, and aerialcastor is not able to explain why this balance is often not reached !!
The reason is the time required to reach this balance that aerialcastor cannot simply calculate !!

Already the term humidity pressure does not correspond to anything. I suppose you want to talk about vapor pressure and you want to talk about the balance of the liquid and vapor phases (but that's not what we were talking about).
So it very rarely happens in reality simply because we are not in a waterproof enclosure.
And otherwise the equilibrium is not achieved by diffusion (as you imply with the references that you have given) but by evaporation (which requires that heat be brought). The "mechanism" is immediate once the necessary heat has been provided.

and he has never walked in a cloud where the fog with 100% humidity to find that the peremptory statement at "this moment there is no more water in the form of gas (vapor)" is totally false, even nonsense, since he would remember being completely wet even under a raincoat thanks to this excess vapor (supersaturation with delay in condensation in addition) which condenses everywhere under the raincoats !!

The mist is composed of micro droplets of liquid water suspended in the air.
Water vapor is an odorless and colorless gas. Unfortunately in everyday language we often speak of water vapor when it is only a micro droplet. For example when we boil water, we see a "fog" above the pan. It is not a question of steam but of micro droplets which are entrained by the flow of water vapor.

The equilibrium is at 100%, below it is out of pressure equilibrium, the liquid water evaporates and above 100% the water condenses on the nucleation sites (see Wilson's chamber, and the earth is a huge Wilson chamber lacking cloud nucleation sites, so the climate varies according to the cosmic rays that bombard us)

With a few details. In particular that the atmosphere is not waterproof, that we are not saturated in humidity .... Otherwise we would always be at 100% humidity, which is very rarely the case in our regions and which never happens in a lot of regions of the globe (desert).