Hello,
I have lost roof spaces insulated on the ground with rock wool rolls (vapor barrier in kraft upwards) and which must date from 15 years.
I have many qustions :
1) the vapor barrier is apparently upside down: first I have to turn everything over? (if that's the case, hello dust !!! and thanks to the funny guys who put them down)
2) the best seems to be to iron a layer either in crossed rolls (but without vapor barrier this time?) Or in bulk. After much research on the forum and the sites of large surfaces, I had come to the conclusion that glass wool was ultimately the most competitive but the last subject puts me in doubt in relation to cellulose wadding. I want to put some but we find where?
3) the annoying problem is that I discovered that most mineral wools are classified F in reaction to fire on the Leroy Merlin catalog (ie very flammable, which is contradictory with everything I had read before) . As there is a VMC which strolls in the roof spaces lost with some electric wires, I told myself that it was necessary to be careful. Arrived at Leroy Merlin, of course they only have 2-3 references in stock (only F) and the seller tells me that the F comes from Kraft paper (it's true that those who have A1 have it in aluminum ). So let's admit without kraft it should do it ... but they don't have it without kraft paper !!!
There remains the bulk: at Casto they have 16 euros for 5m2 - 13kg against 29 euros for the 12 m2 roll - 1,32 kg: look for the error! the price seems to correspond roughly for the surface (advantage with the roller ??? !!) but then the weight: nothing to do !!
Disappointed I look at the Brico depot paper catalog and I see loose vermiculite. I remember that it was not bad in the comparisons but by place I read that it is put in concrete.
I can't see myself concreting over my old layer of rock wool !!
So basically, at the point where I am, I am ready to put cellulose wadding even if it is more expensive but does it resist fire, (and where it is?) Or so vermiculite like that without concrete if possible ...
Basically I'm lost ...
If you have advice do not hesitate ...
Thank you
Reinforce attic insulation lost
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- I discovered econologic
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- Registration: 17/02/08, 19:59
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- I discovered econologic
- posts: 5
- Registration: 17/02/08, 19:59
lost roof space: a straw
Hello and thank you for the answer and the little link below.
I find this idea very charming.
The more I browse the internet, the more I discover new techniques that are always more ecological and less expensive than the previous ones.
Great except that I may be a little lazy or pragmatic, I don't know, I may be the type who likes to be chewed at me, one of these new consumers in constant search for ease, in short. ..I just ask myself the question of where will I find these straw bales at 1 euro (by going around the local farms?), How will I transport them (I would need 130 for 65 m2 of after your calculations and I only have a clio) and how it will fit in the attic where we barely stand on half the surface and then also how I will make them fit through the only small hatch of 50 cm the 2nd floor apartment (occupied by a family) which leads to the attic without going too far for a wacky ... Anyway, how am I going to get the lime after all this. Look, it reminds me of Bigard's skit on the bat ...
On another forum, I am told that rock wool is fire resistant, unlike glass wool, that vermiculite is only used mixed with concrete, that I must turn my rolls which are upside down. On another I am told that the bulk is spread only with a blower system. This partly answers my questions but raises another one: do you need a particular mask to turn over a whole granary of rock wool because it is apparently as thin as asbestos or is it better to forget and iron a diaper ...
Thank you
I find this idea very charming.
The more I browse the internet, the more I discover new techniques that are always more ecological and less expensive than the previous ones.
Great except that I may be a little lazy or pragmatic, I don't know, I may be the type who likes to be chewed at me, one of these new consumers in constant search for ease, in short. ..I just ask myself the question of where will I find these straw bales at 1 euro (by going around the local farms?), How will I transport them (I would need 130 for 65 m2 of after your calculations and I only have a clio) and how it will fit in the attic where we barely stand on half the surface and then also how I will make them fit through the only small hatch of 50 cm the 2nd floor apartment (occupied by a family) which leads to the attic without going too far for a wacky ... Anyway, how am I going to get the lime after all this. Look, it reminds me of Bigard's skit on the bat ...
On another forum, I am told that rock wool is fire resistant, unlike glass wool, that vermiculite is only used mixed with concrete, that I must turn my rolls which are upside down. On another I am told that the bulk is spread only with a blower system. This partly answers my questions but raises another one: do you need a particular mask to turn over a whole granary of rock wool because it is apparently as thin as asbestos or is it better to forget and iron a diaper ...
Thank you
0 x
Re: lost roof space: a straw
I am also a follower of straw but 130 boots is still 4500/5000 kg or an overweight of 70 / 80kg / m2. You did not specify the nature of the floor, concrete or wood, it can make the difference.
As for the insulation in place for 15 years with its vapor barrier upside down, it has had time to absorb the humidity (water vapor) generated by the 2nd floor apartment in a more or less less important depending on the nature of the ceiling / floor and the presence of a CMV.
So in my opinion, it is not worth much anymore, so it would be useless to put the vapor barrier back up. You might as well leave it as it is and put a layer of insulation over it.
Then comes the choice of insulation: rock wool is non-flammable but it presents a certain risk to inhalation, its fibers being "biopersistent", ie they will not be destroyed by our body; they will therefore remain in our bronchi throughout our life and, if necessary, cause a reaction from our organism "irritated" by the development of cancer cells. The risk is only present at the installation practically but it exists.
So mask MANDATORY!
Otherwise, you have cellulose wadding (mask also but just for dust) and if you do a research on the forum, you will find what Christophe did in his attic.
As for the insulation in place for 15 years with its vapor barrier upside down, it has had time to absorb the humidity (water vapor) generated by the 2nd floor apartment in a more or less less important depending on the nature of the ceiling / floor and the presence of a CMV.
So in my opinion, it is not worth much anymore, so it would be useless to put the vapor barrier back up. You might as well leave it as it is and put a layer of insulation over it.
Then comes the choice of insulation: rock wool is non-flammable but it presents a certain risk to inhalation, its fibers being "biopersistent", ie they will not be destroyed by our body; they will therefore remain in our bronchi throughout our life and, if necessary, cause a reaction from our organism "irritated" by the development of cancer cells. The risk is only present at the installation practically but it exists.
So mask MANDATORY!
Otherwise, you have cellulose wadding (mask also but just for dust) and if you do a research on the forum, you will find what Christophe did in his attic.
0 x
Hello,
if you are lazy then put glass wool,
if you are one of these new consumers ask bricodépot?
I told you the bale of straw there is no better, after if you do not put yours, it is you who sees!
but it will not come by itself!
I wish you pleasure to breathe the vine of glass or rock in your small space ...
the bale of straw can be asked for only 20 cm thick: you have to ask it ... to someone who makes straw!
so it's simple i give you the procedure to follow: already you spot a field of wheat ............
then the guy delivers them to you, to mount them either you do it yourself or with friends or you pay someone to do it, well I offer myself at 150 € per hour if you want
50cm it goes easy the dimension is 40cm.
for load distribution yes you have to see the floor but there is no problem should not believe that boots will bend a floor
if you are lazy then put glass wool,
if you are one of these new consumers ask bricodépot?
I told you the bale of straw there is no better, after if you do not put yours, it is you who sees!
but it will not come by itself!
I wish you pleasure to breathe the vine of glass or rock in your small space ...
the bale of straw can be asked for only 20 cm thick: you have to ask it ... to someone who makes straw!
so it's simple i give you the procedure to follow: already you spot a field of wheat ............
then the guy delivers them to you, to mount them either you do it yourself or with friends or you pay someone to do it, well I offer myself at 150 € per hour if you want
50cm it goes easy the dimension is 40cm.
for load distribution yes you have to see the floor but there is no problem should not believe that boots will bend a floor
0 x
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- I discovered econologic
- posts: 5
- Registration: 17/02/08, 19:59
lost roof space: a straw
Hello and thank you for your answers.
I see that Jonule reacted well to my little provocation but we will end up advancing:
I summarize :
65 m2 x 2,5 boots = 162 boots at 35 kg the boot = 5600 kg
I do not know if my floor is concrete: it looks more solid than a simple board of BA13 fixed on the joists but to calculate the resistance, I have a little trouble.
For the weight, there remains a little unknown.
Question volume, I deduce from the 2,5 boots of 40 cm per 1 m2 that each boot is 1m long.
While looking for where to find straw, I found this little article which looks pretty good to me: I make everyone enjoy it: http://www.planetmaison.com/html/expert ... rticle=289
The straw seems to be available only at the end of the summer. It is therefore grated for this end of winter.
another article gives more precise indications: http://www.ideesmaison.com/Construction ... ez-le.html
I discovered in fact that the straw is extremely dense once compressed (I imagined enormous straw bales given the announced weight!) But it is difficult to know in advance its thermal performance because it depends on the conditions of "manufacture" .
There is therefore a somewhat random parameter on the result.
Regarding the price I will see but at 1 euro, it looks a priori competitive even with a delivery. So I would have to go now to find a farmer and reserve my straw for him for the end of the summer.
In any case I like this story of straw, I would make my house well like that !!
I see that Jonule reacted well to my little provocation but we will end up advancing:
I summarize :
65 m2 x 2,5 boots = 162 boots at 35 kg the boot = 5600 kg
I do not know if my floor is concrete: it looks more solid than a simple board of BA13 fixed on the joists but to calculate the resistance, I have a little trouble.
For the weight, there remains a little unknown.
Question volume, I deduce from the 2,5 boots of 40 cm per 1 m2 that each boot is 1m long.
While looking for where to find straw, I found this little article which looks pretty good to me: I make everyone enjoy it: http://www.planetmaison.com/html/expert ... rticle=289
The straw seems to be available only at the end of the summer. It is therefore grated for this end of winter.
another article gives more precise indications: http://www.ideesmaison.com/Construction ... ez-le.html
I discovered in fact that the straw is extremely dense once compressed (I imagined enormous straw bales given the announced weight!) But it is difficult to know in advance its thermal performance because it depends on the conditions of "manufacture" .
There is therefore a somewhat random parameter on the result.
Regarding the price I will see but at 1 euro, it looks a priori competitive even with a delivery. So I would have to go now to find a farmer and reserve my straw for him for the end of the summer.
In any case I like this story of straw, I would make my house well like that !!
0 x
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Don't listen daffodil, he wants to spread his straw to everyone !!
I have just (in January) reinforced the insulation of our lost roofs with a little hemp and lots of cellulose.
Everything will find all the info and prices here (there is even a small video of bibi in action : https://www.econologie.com/forums/isoler-des ... t4708.html
Cellulose, with equivalent insulating power is cheaper than glass wool except glass wool 1st price (therefore performance and held over time not necessarily doubtful): https://www.econologie.com/forums/isolation- ... t4709.html
ps: have you tested the humidity contained in your glass wool to see that it is still an "insulator" or if it has become a thermal strainer? With this device you should be able to do it easily: https://www.econologie.com/shop/humidime ... p-128.html
I have just (in January) reinforced the insulation of our lost roofs with a little hemp and lots of cellulose.
Everything will find all the info and prices here (there is even a small video of bibi in action : https://www.econologie.com/forums/isoler-des ... t4708.html
Cellulose, with equivalent insulating power is cheaper than glass wool except glass wool 1st price (therefore performance and held over time not necessarily doubtful): https://www.econologie.com/forums/isolation- ... t4709.html
ps: have you tested the humidity contained in your glass wool to see that it is still an "insulator" or if it has become a thermal strainer? With this device you should be able to do it easily: https://www.econologie.com/shop/humidime ... p-128.html
0 x
Do a image search or an text search - Netiquette of forum
ah well it's nice to hear that, forum1000!
for your floor, you must find the details / construction plans of this floor, it must be mentioned the admissible overloads, if there is a prestressed slab etc ...
but don't worry, 70kg per m² is nothing.
but rather: how is this floor / sketch diagram photo made? wooden beams? main beam? slack?
for your floor, you must find the details / construction plans of this floor, it must be mentioned the admissible overloads, if there is a prestressed slab etc ...
but don't worry, 70kg per m² is nothing.
but rather: how is this floor / sketch diagram photo made? wooden beams? main beam? slack?
0 x
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- I discovered econologic
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- Registration: 18/11/14, 16:41
Perform the work by a RGE QUALIBAT certified craftsman
Hello everybody
Each insulator represents its own characteristics, adapted to different types of climate.
A house in a mountainous region will not need the same insulation as a house by the sea.
There are 3 groups of thermal insulation:
synthetic insulators (based on petroleum products): polystyrene, polyurethane;
mineral fiber insulation: rock wool, glass wool, perlite, ...
insulators made from vegetable or animal fibers: cork, linen wool, cellulose wadding, wood felt, hemp, coconut wool,
sheep wool, feather ...
They must respect a thickness defined by the Thermal Regulations 2012 (RT 2012) which allows each insulator to be at the maximum of its capacities to insulate.
The insulation can be placed in a panel / roll or blown in the attic with a crust finish for the cellulose wadding.
Do not hesitate to contact us for more information.
Each insulator represents its own characteristics, adapted to different types of climate.
A house in a mountainous region will not need the same insulation as a house by the sea.
There are 3 groups of thermal insulation:
synthetic insulators (based on petroleum products): polystyrene, polyurethane;
mineral fiber insulation: rock wool, glass wool, perlite, ...
insulators made from vegetable or animal fibers: cork, linen wool, cellulose wadding, wood felt, hemp, coconut wool,
sheep wool, feather ...
They must respect a thickness defined by the Thermal Regulations 2012 (RT 2012) which allows each insulator to be at the maximum of its capacities to insulate.
The insulation can be placed in a panel / roll or blown in the attic with a crust finish for the cellulose wadding.
Do not hesitate to contact us for more information.
0 x
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