Proposal own PAC and indepandante EDF

[aamgr]

Hello,
Assuming that a heat pump at a COP 3, you think it is possible to recover 1 / 3 heat produced by the heat pump to make electricity (for example via a low temperature turbine )?
It would serve to self-feed the PAC itself, and 2 / 3 of the remaining heat would be used to heat the house.

Another possible track, is it possible to create heat by the opposite principle of the absorption refrigerator, and using the heat of the air as a heating system instead of gas.

Thank you

[Forhorse]

1) No
2) No

[chatelot16]

a pac does not have a 3 cop! it has a maximum cop that is calculated according to the hot and cold temperatures

as by chance, the same formula of carnot allows to calculate the maximum efficiency of a heat engine with the same temperature hot and cold

as if by chance if for a given temperature the maximum cop is 5 the maximum efficiency of the engine that does the reverse work is 1 / 5: perfect pac + perfect engine = simply max yield = 1

and as usual nothing is perfect when you put end-to-end machines just accumulate losses

[dedeleco]

So far nobody has ever managed to make a perpetual motion in which fate as input in a closed circuit !!!
Carnot's principle is only a formulation of this real practical observation.
1 / 3 of recovered heat to make electric current would give with a conversion efficiency of 33% real 1 / x1 / 3 = 1 / 9 of electrical power totally insufficient to run the CAP that asks 1 to make 3 !!!

[aamgr]

To tell the truth, it will not be a perpetual movement since one will add to each cycle of the heat of the air.
But a pity that because of Carnot it is not possible to self-feed a PAC

[dedeleco]

The Carnot principle only summarizes the experimental observation that no one has managed to recover energy without fatigue, for example a boat would move into the sea by cooling and freezing it to recover energy from the heat of the sea! !!
It takes two sources of heat a cold and a hot to recover work said Carnot summarizing the experimental impossibility verified for centuries by a single source of heat to do work!

[bobono]

Possible

a wind turbine or hydro turbine drives a pump in a high-pressure primary circuit with, if possible, accumulator in compressed air.

The compressed air stok operates the heat pump on demand.

In a PAC heat is produced by the compressor, this one must be the most ready of the end use

The problem is the storage of energy in one form or another, the output is the important point.

[bernardd]

The Carnot principle only summarizes the experimental observation that no one has managed to recover energy without fatigue, for example a boat would move into the sea by cooling and freezing it to recover energy from the heat of the sea! !!

Not quite right: if I remember correctly, an underwater drone has been developed, which is used to record "underwater weather" conditions.

It is powered by both pressure and temperature variations, but I do not have a specific memory and I can not find a reference on the web :-(

In any case, we can use a single source at a time, exploiting variations over time :-)

ok, ok, storage is like creating a second source

But a clever inversion creates a cycle, potentially infinite :-)

This drone is the machine I know that looks the most like perpetual motion

[Alain G]

Another possible track, is it possible to create heat by the opposite principle of the absorption refrigerator, and using the heat of the air as a heating system instead of gas.

Thank you

If you talk about compressing the air instead of freon gas or ammonia!

Yes! all the air compressor releases heat due to the compression of the air!

It is the performance that is not very good because the liquefaction of the air requires enormous pressure!

[aamgr]

If you talk about compressing the air instead of freon gas or ammonia!

Yes! all the air compressor releases heat due to the compression of the air!

It is the performance that is not very good because the liquefaction of the air requires enormous pressure!

To tell the truth, I was talking about camping refrigerators called absorption refrigerators which do not have a compressor but use a small gas cylinder to heat the device ([url] http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/R%C3%A9fri ... ion_de_gaz
[/ url])
I was wondering if it was possible to use this kind of device to heat instead of cool and use outside fresh air to run the system.
Thank you