Pellets and wood pellets: what future for the price?

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Christophe
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Pellets and wood pellets: what future for the price?




by Christophe » 21/01/08, 11:14

Following a reflection on this topic: https://www.econologie.com/forums/achat-de-p ... t4681.html
I think it's interesting to create a new topic about Stable prices of pellets.

The study of the curves of the last years is rather favorable to this energy. These curves are in isoenergy, ie in Euros for the same quantity of energy, in other words, for example: 250 € / t pellets matches the same price reported energy to a fuel 50 € cents ...

Here is a price curve for Germany TTC delivered (50km) for 5 tons and updated every month: http://www.carmen-ev.de/dt/energie/pell ... reise.html

Legend:
- green, holzpellets = wood pellets
- red, heizöl = oil
- yellow, erdgaz = natural gas

Image

And here is the comparison with the French electricié: live and via COPA heat pump of 3

Image

But since they are very "fashionable" many people are equipping themselves, but is the future so bright? We have some doubts ...

Some thoughts on the instability of wood pellet prices:

a) Increase in demand so prices

b) Sawdust deposits limited and already fairly well valued (agglomerates ...) so tension on raw material prices

c) No regulation of prices (for the moment) unlike oil or gas, in other words: anyone sells at any price.

d) Quality and calorific value are they really standardized and guaranteed? As much as I have confidence in the German standardization as much for the future factories in France I have doubts ...

e) What quality tests are performed precisely and how many times a day?

f) The price increase will bring on the market sharks who will not hesitate to sell shit (pellets made, in part, from lacquered wood waste, adding small doses of plastics to improve the PCI for example ...) by deceiving the quality tests.

g) Impossibility of burning wood in a pellet stove, a boiler is adaptable for chips or shredded wood but not a stove

h) Combustion of agropellets (rare but still existing) problematic in small power (<50 kW)

More:

Pollution of pellets or pellets?

Analysis of the combustion of biomass boilers
Last edited by Christophe the 15 / 01 / 15, 15: 19, 12 edited once.
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by arthur » 21/01/08, 22:28

Prices are fairly stable home, I visited the installation of a user who paid € 2007 190 / T against € 200 2006 to 6T in bulk.

Increase in demand so prices

A manufacturing plant opened there 3 months 10 km from home. I know this is not the case for everyone, but as production increases

Deposits of sawdust limited and already quite well valorized (agglomerates ...) therefore tension on the prices of the raw material

I think the day when we will miss sawdust, we will find it without too much trouble locally

Are the quality and calorific value really standardized and guaranteed? As much as I have confidence in the German standardization as much for the future factories in France I have doubts ...

The factory next to me produces pellets in accordance with DIN 51731-HP5 (ÖNORM M 7135 - HP1). I don't know in detail what it's worth but it's not "shit"

I agree with you that prices will go up and that there will always be unscrupulous producers, but you have to stop being psychotic. There are also serious and competent people.
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by Christophe » 21/01/08, 23:56

We do not psychotic, we warn ... nuance : Mrgreen: but the debate remains open and thank you for your clarification!
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Re: Pellets and pellets: what future for prices?




by Did67 » 23/01/08, 15:07

Christophe wrote:Indeed, as they are very "fashionable" many people equip themselves but is the future so bright as the sellers want it to be believed? We have some doubts ...


Yes, but would not fashion be happening? See the multiplication of articles and reports relating to the harmfulness of wood combustion!

In Germany, we note the first bankruptcies of manufacturers of pellet boilers having seen too big!
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by Christophe » 23/01/08, 15:46

Mmm I was not aware of this slowdown but I think the difficulty of manufacturers are also related precisely to the sourcing ...

It's exactly as if a car manufacturer were selling cars in a country where there would be very few gas stations ...

ps: heat pumps, they explode (see JT FR2 today) ... strongly new nuclear power plants ... : Mrgreen:
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by Christine » 23/01/08, 16:07

I also believe that manufacturers / resellers of boilers and pellet stoves do not insist enough on le great advantage of this system, ie peacefulness for the user.

Because finally one of the charms of fuel oil and gas (not to mention town gas, even simpler) is that you just have to fill your tank and press the "on" button, with at the limit a small thermostat setting in spring and autumn. Compare this with wood burning by logs, that even if you buy it cut you have to stack and then unstack and then carry and then relight and then clean the dirt, then remove the ashes etc.

With pellets, everything is regulated, constant, clean, with minimal work: ease fuel oil with the benefits of wood. It Is not it beautiful?
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by Christophe » 23/01/08, 16:16

Certainly, but at what price is tranquility? A useful energy equivalent, sorry, but the majority of people will keep their fuel ... and they will be right!

Finally we repeat ... but ... the subject of wood prices is important, it will conditonne its development (or not) real in the future ...
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by Christine » 23/01/08, 16:41

Christophe wrote:Certainly, but at what price is tranquility? A useful energy equivalent, sorry, but the majority of people will keep their fuel ... and they will be right!

Finally we repeat ... but ... the subject of wood prices is important, it will conditonne its development (or not) real in the future ...

uh ... what was your goal in launching this subject then? to demonstrate that everyone must stay on fuel?
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by jean63 » 23/01/08, 17:41

Christophe wrote:Certainly, but at what price is tranquility? A useful energy equivalent, sorry, but the majority of people will keep their fuel ... and they will be right!

Finally we repeat ... but ... the subject of wood prices is important, it will conditonne its development (or not) real in the future ...


You saw in the FR2 news report that, according to the testimony, people go to the PAC (supposedly a former user consumed for 2000 to 5000 euros per year and moving to a pAC air -... ... he lowered his bill considerably). Is it a deceptive disguised "ad" for example?

You get the report?
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by Did67 » 23/01/08, 20:46

Christophe wrote:Certainly, but at what price is tranquility? A useful energy equivalent, sorry, but the majority of people will keep their fuel ... and they will be right!

Finally we repeat ... but ... the subject of wood prices is important, it will conditonne its development (or not) real in the future ...


No, no ... I just wrote elsewhere that it was lamentable to try to knock on the forums with massive arguments ... I therefore hold back.

When you talk about useful energy, it's not clear. What's this ?

The manufacture of pellets, their transport, of course has an energy cost, partly in oil.

But do not forget:

1) that at the beginning there is a waste: sawdust
2) that in general, we are on very short circuits (compared to oil!); the source of my pellets is the Black Forest, a hundred kilometers away
3) drying is usually made from biomass: bad sawdust, bark, pellets 2e choice, pallets at the end of life, waste sawmill, etc ...

According to Swiss studies, the fossil energy content in pellets is low. I think I remember about 5%. I am looking for this and will complete. It will obviously not be the same for Paris, or Toulouse ...

But above all, we must not forget that oil comes from much, much further.

Then, do you know the energy cost of a refinery? Then the one of the distribution? Do you think that Total's lorries on roads and highways consume less oil than the trucks of our pellet manufacturers? Do you think the refinery is on average closer than the pellet plant?

I would be surprised if the energy cost of fuel oil is lower than that of pellets, if we take all the sectors.

I spared you the Erika and the Exon Valdes ... A truck of pellets that latches, it's a bit of sawdust in nature. The saprophytes (plants that feed on organic matter) will feast ...

I am sparing you the blow of the Emir who spends an A 380, with gold handles. He wanted to put a pool in, before the Airbus engineers reasoned.

You promote oil if you want. And you assume.
You "denigrate" the pellets. Maybe that's not your option, for some reason that escapes me, the arguments sound like bad faith (what others would call "disinformation").

Others, refer two minutes with me:

- a short chain
- which "consumes" biomass
- and, yes, some fuel
- which creates local employment
- which is neutral in CO² (so from the point of global warming)
- that works entirely automatically like fuel
- with boiler efficiency from 90 to 100%
- with an operating cost almost half that of fuel
- at the price of a roughly double investment
- but you get half (in France) as a tax credit

... I only know one: the pellet boilers

Now do not do the cons. If you put all, the price of pellets will flare, I'll look like a con ... So opt for fuel or gas. You will do me a favor. While you are, dissuade your friends!
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