Council opinion quote pellet boiler

Heating, insulation, ventilation, VMC, cooling ... short thermal comfort. Insulation, wood energy, heat pumps but also electricity, gas or oil, VMC ... Help in choosing and implementation, problem solving, optimization, tips and tricks ...
dedeleco
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by dedeleco » 11/04/12, 23:27

Personally I like your thermosiphon, endangered species, with a vase on top (guarantee of never problems, as usual with expansion vessels near boilers to change often 3 to 5 years sometimes, membranes overheated by the nearby boiler and leaking, designed to be changed often), that works because you have pipes from large diameters, amount to the vertical almost everywhere and a water temperature coming from the boiler high enough to operate it.
Each of these points is to be quantified to see what remains valid with the new boiler.
The usual installers are unable to calculate a thermosiphon, which works with certainty !!
http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermosiphon
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermosiphon

So as much as possible keep your thermosiphon, which works well, which I would do for you.
You can put a fairly large expansion tank at the top of the installation, at the right pressure adapted to the height.

Have you measured your consumption last winter and the power of your current boiler?

Look at the characteristics of your current installation and beware.
Take 10 quotes from 10 installers and compare advice and opinions, only those identical with the 10 installers are valid !!

Avoid unnecessary overpower, a source of excess consumption and above all hunt before the maximum heat losses on the pipes and the house.
An installer who does not advise you is not to be trusted.
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Philippe Schutt
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by Philippe Schutt » 12/04/12, 08:33

The open vase is very good, lifespan about 50 years if in steel, mine ended up rusting, replaced by a plastic model, already 15 years ago. There is no reason to replace otherwise, except for the pleasure of having everything in one place.

Most manufacturers of wood or pellet boilers require the presence of a charging circuit with circulator and thermostatic valve generally set at 60 °, some void the warranty or reduce it if there is none.

Mount a Tee of 80 and then an increase to 125 is perfectly correct.

In stoves, Jolly-Mec makes a model at 16kw, but it is exactly the same machine as the 20kw, only the settings change. And in the 2 the minimum power is 2,5kw. It is the minimum power that determines the size of the buffer tank, not the maximum!
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by Did67 » 12/04/12, 09:08

Philippe Schutt wrote:The open vase is very good, lifespan about 50 years if in steel, mine ended up rusting, replaced by a plastic model, already 15 years ago. There is no reason to replace otherwise, except for the pleasure of having everything in one place.

Most manufacturers of wood or pellet boilers require the presence of a charging circuit with circulator and thermostatic valve generally set at 60 °, some void the warranty or reduce it if there is none.!


1) The advantage of the pressurized circuit is to rise to 2 or 2,5 bars, which reduces the risk of "cavitation": formation of "bubbles" on the blades of the circulator, as on a propeller, bubbles that dig the metal ...

To avoid this risk, I maintain 2,5 (which would correspond to a height of 25 m!)

2) Most "top ten" pellet boilers have an integrated temperature recovery system and do not require external thermostatic valves ...

On mine, heated floors connected directly (of course, there is a motorized mixing valve on the flow, for regulation by external probe, but that's not what we're talking about here).
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dedeleco
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by dedeleco » 12/04/12, 10:50

Me, with a tear of the bowl of constantly shriveled vases, I put the expansion tank under pressure at the top of the installation, no more breakdowns over 5 years and also under pressure.
The vase near the boiler and at the bottom is an ideal scientific aberration for endless breakdowns !!!
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Philippe Schutt
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by Philippe Schutt » 12/04/12, 13:15

Did67 wrote:1) The advantage of the pressurized circuit is to rise to 2 or 2,5 bars, which reduces the risk of "cavitation": formation of "bubbles" on the blades of the circulator, as on a propeller, bubbles that dig the metal ...

To avoid this risk, I maintain 2,5 (which would correspond to a height of 25 m!)

2) Most "top ten" pellet boilers have an integrated temperature recovery system and do not require external thermostatic valves ...

On mine, heated floors connected directly (of course, there is a motorized mixing valve on the flow, for regulation by external probe, but that's not what we're talking about here).


1. you have to climb high in T ° to have a risk of cavitation. 2,5b in individual houses with heated floors are a bit exaggerated. But hey, as long as it's in the hardware data, why not ...
2. yes, the others too. This is not sufficient for some, the return water having to be> 60 ° to avoid condensation even at its point of entry.
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by Did67 » 12/04/12, 13:42

Philippe Schutt wrote:
1. you have to climb high in T ° to have a risk of cavitation. 2,5b in individual houses with heated floors are a bit exaggerated. But hey, as long as it's in the hardware data, why not ...

2. yes, the others too. This is not sufficient for some, the return water having to be> 60 ° to avoid condensation even at its point of entry.


1) I don't think so: cavitation occurs on the propellers of boats at sea. The physical "phenomenon" is not at all related to temperature, but to depression. In the same way as a bottle of Coke that you open "boils", the gases dissolved in the water escape if you reduce the pressure. However, at the rear of the blades as at the rear of a propeller, there is a strong depression (well, it depends on the speed of rotation!).

For a circulator, if the pressure is increased, this depression is avoided ...

The boiler is certified to 3 bars. My circuits, I don't know! Where they are in the slab, they are surrounded!

2) OK for "some". Above, you said most of it. What I deny when it comes to top ten brands: Okofen, Hargassner, Fröling, Viessmann, etc ...

In my case, Okofen, direct returns to 25 ° in the boiler.

Hargassner or Fröling on, t sliding temperature models which operate with boiler temperatures below 55 °.
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Philippe Schutt
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by Philippe Schutt » 12/04/12, 16:51

there should be no gas dissolved in heating water after almost a season.
For the NPSH, read this: http://physiquecira.free.fr/CoursPhys/pompes/NPSH.htm
and at the end of this article: http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pression_d ... _saturante you will find the relation between T ° and pressure.
Normally, a circulator has a required NPSH of 3m (or 0,3b) max.
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mariepoussin
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by mariepoussin » 13/04/12, 10:42

After installing an oversized wood heater this winter, and with hindsight, the next time we will call on a specialized design office for thermal study and drafting of specifications for installation by a heating engineer. The additional cost will be, I think, largely profitable if the installation works properly. We did not do it and today we have been in conflict with our heating engineer for 3 months and the installation on consume. So wasting a lot of time and money ...
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dedeleco
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by dedeleco » 13/04/12, 13:17

And also, have a multi-risk defense and home remedies insurance before, to be very cheap in court, ask for 10 different quotes and average advice, and still be wary of the advice booth which can be wrong, like my architect, father and well graduated son !!
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by footix64 » 18/09/13, 10:05

Hello everyone,

I thank everyone who has followed this topic.
So more than a year later ‚and many setbacks when the solution chosen I will soon give you a small detailed account with photos of the installation, problems encountered and operation of the installation.
I risk making a sacred pavement because I have a lot to say.
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