Boiler notes with CAP and solar

[bernardd]

To wash your hands and take a shower, 33 ° C would be good enough.

To climb higher, the only solution is:
1- to focus more light on the one hand, to reach the right temperature,
2- then increase the surface, to reach sufficient power for the quantity of water to be heated.

[PITMIX]

Thank you
That's what I wanted to know.
I now have a comparison with a real solar installation.

I still have to modify my installation, just a few inversions of fittings under the boiler and the tank.
I will also install a pressure switch which will switch on the boiler only when we draw hot water. The rest of the time it is water preheated by the sun which will circulate in the pipes. The regulation will be all the more simplified.

Then I would try to increase the efficiency of the panels by solar concentration, but I must already start on a good basis.
Thank you.

[dedeleco]

Totally agree with the remarks.
I had started to write some impressions but I was slow to send them:
It is very useful to remember the real situation, because I did not remember and I mixed with the problem of heating.

To look at the diagram, with more care, if I understood correctly the explanations, "when a tap is opened, the pressure drops, and the pressure switch authorizes the boiler", and the hot water, thanks to the anti-valve. return to cold water, hot water passes through the boiler to reach the taps. but if the boiler is cold (in summer or winter, temporarily, this water will cool in the exchanger of this boiler which has a certain efficiency on this cold boiler to cool the hot water, (as when it is hot for heat) ??????)
The DHW pump runs continuously and it does the same, passing hot water after solar exchanger into the boiler (which if cold cools the water) before returning to pseudo cold water in the tank. I am perplexed.
Another assembly seems preferable, with an additional three-way valve, putting or not the boiler in the circuit, according to the needs, of water not hot enough or not to be heated by the boiler ???
In addition to pass the hot water at the top of the tank in the solar exchanger as inlet water leaves me perplexed, because it is better to bring in the coldest water from the bottom of the tank to heat it, otherwise the tank will never have hot water down there ???

Finally, a problem is that city drinking water follows a beautiful circuit in the boiler, the exchanger, etc.
In particular the exchanger if it is not perfectly tight, will put glycol in drinking water which is not very good, even at a few millionths ???????

This same tank with several internal copper heat exchanger tubes seems to me to be safer and the heating water from the boiler is not potable water to be passed through the solar collector exchanger.
What are the pipes in the boiler, copper steel?
In addition, if the drinking water is limestone, this renewed, heated limestone will settle in the boiler and plug rather thin pipes much faster ??

[PITMIX]

The heater is made of copper.
At first glance, the water remains in the boiler tank and does not pass through the heating body.

[dedeleco]

Nice clean boiler!
It has two circulators and an internal drinking water tank which changes everything !!
Your diagram should have indicated this.


Finally, your Clima boiler seems to work better than for the galleys of these:
http://forum.doctissimo.fr/viepratique/ ... _224_1.htm
even with a plumber father and other plumbers !!!!

[PITMIX]

Yes I did not draw it on the diagram but I have specified it several times, it has a 60L tank.

What I don't know is if this boiler is capable of providing instant hot water.
If it is not the case, I could not connect it as on my last diagram.

Also on this boiler I just changed a thermo-immersion temperature sensor after only 3 years of operation.

[dedeleco]

What I don't know is if this boiler is capable of providing instant hot water.

A priori with the flow of the power of the boiler to heat the tank in how long, half an hour ??????
So do not use more than 60l per half hour ???

Otherwise on the internet some people declare that the spare parts of the air conditioning cannot be found ????

To read, you may have a few of these problems !!

Everything is designed to last less and less !!
https://www.econologie.com/forums/post184464.html#184464

I just changed an immersion temperature sensor after only 3 years of operation.

What physical principle was this probe on?
What is its type of wear.
Bulb and liquid that expands ??
Then it can be recharged.
Another principle is also repairable.
resistance, thermocouple, semiconductor ????
When I repair like this, I have no more breakdown !! because often lack of design !!
It's easier than printer cartridges 100 times the price of the ink in it !!
Otherwise they are pieces designed to wear out and bring in money to change them !!
When you buy a boiler, you have to take the simplest one inside to be able to repair it and have fewer breakdowns !!!!

Often, it is unnecessarily complicated !!
Ultimately buy the maximum number of spare parts from the start, because after years they cannot be found !! (almost a new duplicate machine !!)
Given my past, if everyone was like me, there would be fewer plumbers.

Finally, on a boiler, I add in double an additional safety against overheating, because we cannot test the safety of overheating and know that it works, so I put a duplicate at T a little lower ( even a duplicate thermostat that does not wear out and can be checked !!)

The expansion tank is generally studied to die quickly 5 years (annuity for the manufacturer with special form) and it is enough to put another at the top of the installation in the attic to never have this problem again!

[PITMIX]

For troubleshooting I manage. This is also why I chose a boiler almost without electronics.
The probe in question was a resistance probe.
While waiting to receive the news, I replaced it with a 10 Kohm resistor.
To return to my installation I think of installing a simple solenoid valve which shunts my boiler in the solar cycle.
When I open a tap the pressure drops and the pressure switch opens the solenoid valve so that the preheated water feeds the boiler.

My previous idea of ​​an instant boiler was for the case where I circulated the water in the boiler in the solar cycle.
The boiler tank would therefore be at 15 ° C or more depending on the sunshine. In this case, it was necessary to heat the water to 50 or 60 ° C as soon as a tap was opened. In my idea it was the pressure switch that allowed the boiler to start when a pressure drop when a tap was opened.

Bypassing the boiler this solves the problem.
The 60L tank remains at 50 or 60 ° C maintained by the boiler and the pressure switch only supplies the boiler with preheated water from the 200L tank via the solenoid valve.

A non-return valve prevents the preheated water from flowing backwards through the boiler in solar mode when the solenoid valve is closed. Another valve prevents hot water from circulating in a loop when a tap is open and the solenoid valve is engaged.

[PITMIX]

Hello

I wonder if, there will really be an economic interest, to run my boiler 24/24 to maintain its internal tank of 60L at 60 ° C (short-cycle) with solar preheating throughout the year? Or simply, leave my hot water circuit as it is currently, with two heating periods per 24 hours and play on the inertia of the 200L balloon while taking advantage of solar energy only in summer.
Anyway, I will still make the modification of the pipes as on the last diagram, because I could use my installation in one way or the other at will.
I could also see if my boiler is capable of heating water instantly, in which case the economic problem will be immediately resolved by activating the boiler only when drawing hot water.

[bernardd]

Yes, because your boiler also has 2 internal circulators.

With his balloon, you actually have the 2 hot and cold reserves that I imagined in a previous post.

To understand the system, you must take into account the interior of this boiler: what would be useful is to also measure parameters inside, as you do for the outside ...

And 60l is probably enough for a few minutes of showering, so regulation has time to make a decision.

At my level, I still need to "measure" what is really happening to fully understand this system.