Hello, after some time reading the forum, I start for my first message on the forum.
With my partner we are buying a house in the north Lozère, about 1000M above sea level, cold climate, with a lot of sun, but also cold wind, and snow, in summer, the temperature is pleasant during the day, but I do not think that we need an insulator with a significant phase shift, because the risk of overheating is rare.
the house is about 100m² per level, on two levels, with attic space. or on a cellar of 80 m².
building all in length as it is done well here, with stone walls, thickness of 90cm if I'm not mistaken ..
large north facade without opening, facade with many windows, fairly recent double glazing.
the attic is insulated with 10 cm of glass wool.
the boiler dates from the 70s at best, fuel oil.
We are thinking of insulating the roof space with 20 to 25 cm of loose injected cellulose wool. with paneling lining to add a bit of insulation.
Regarding heating, we think to put a good oil boiler for a small part that we will rent (about 1/4 of the surface), and either a good oil condensing boiler, or a wood pellet boiler (will depend a little quotes), to be completed with a wood stove.
Regarding the insulation of the walls, the insulation from the outside is complicated, because the wall to the north is at the edge of the property, and it is the most important to insulate.
the choice will therefore be for interior insulation, but there are still many questions, about the materials to choose.
Regarding heating, I was told that the problem of a wood stove in auxiliary heating could disrupt the regulation of the main boiler.
I am therefore interested in all your advice concerning heating systems, and insulations especially concerning the walls.
Insulation and heating old house Nord Lozère
with stone walls, 90cm thick
your house has a great inertia with this mass of stone (of what nature, limestone, granite, volcano,) in direct contact with the earth (therefore the external insulation is not very useful short-circuited by the ground) and therefore always at temperature annual average of 10 ° C to 13 ° C (at 1000m altitude I am not sure) never hot and never cold !! and very long to heat with tens of tons of stone.
You must have lots of logs in the area et I don't understand fuel oil or even as pellets, with the wood of the surroundings and also at your place if you have a good ground with hedges and trees. (when I see the amount of plants and pruned wood thrown around me by my neighbors which could be burned I am frightened)
The automatic wood boiler could be the best, even mixed, wood logs, pellets ?? if you agree to invest a good amount.
See nearby farmers who burn their plants.
if you have wood easily gratis at home and not too expensive around, you can choose not to insulate very thick (except the roof spaces which with 10 cm are not catastrophic) by spending a little more cheap wood to heat
I tell you my reactions that I would have in your place in a beautiful region like Lozère.
Solar hot water would be nice too.
Otherwise look at the site with advice www.fiabitat.com who likes old houses like yours, much more than modern concrete blocks from the 50s to the 90s (a horror for them) and who can take care of detailed advice.
look at passive house:
http://www.fiabitat.com/construction-ma ... sive.php#0
because yours is a bit like the old fashioned way.
http://www.fiabitat.com/construction-ma ... atisme.php
because you are not far from a semi buried house and you could heat the earth in summer with solar thermal collectors on the roof to conduct this summer heat under and around the house in depth, to artificially increase the temperature average of the ground under your house (from 10 ° C to 20 ° C and more) which via its walls of almost 1m thick would raise this summer heat in winter, reducing the heating to very little !!
This is already the case with you, the floor and walls remain around 10 ° C to 13 ° C as in a cave, which was very useful in the past with ineffective heaters to withstand extreme cold.
read about it:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seasonal_thermal_storage
http://www.dlsc.ca/borehole.htm
https://www.econologie.com/forums/post183747.html#183747
In my opinion, this is the most effective future for limiting CO2 from heating, but it is necessary to raise awareness in mentalities in France !!
0 x
Hello,
why wood pellets, rather than logs, simply because it is automated, and it heats itself even when I am at work, it is programmable, and storage requires less handling.
why the fuel oil in the rental part, I would say that this choice does not satisfy me entirely, but that for a tenant, I prefer a system that requires little maintenance, because we are never on the investment of a tenant .Now if the granule is really as simple to maintain, why not.
Regarding solar, we will come at least for water. now the storage in the ground, if the idea is attractive: 75m² of roofs exposed on, with about 2000h of sun per year, it can heat up a lot, but the soil is granite, so drill 30 m all along the house it may cost us a fortune. remains a storage in a water tank placed in the cellar. (to think and budget)
In addition, assimilate a two storey house more combes without party walls to a semi buried house, even if the walls are thick (because 90 cm below, but in general, the thicknesses decrease while going up towards the roof (I am not still in there, so can't make measurements)) maybe it's a little quick shortcut.
on the other hand, I retain the fact that considering the inertia of the walls insulation from the outside is not very interesting, because it will already be necessary to heat the wall, suddenly it falls well that one cannot do it.
free wood, we must not dream, it is a particularly important additional income currently for farmers who morlent badly. cheaper than in town it's safe, but free, except when you do it yourself.
why wood pellets, rather than logs, simply because it is automated, and it heats itself even when I am at work, it is programmable, and storage requires less handling.
why the fuel oil in the rental part, I would say that this choice does not satisfy me entirely, but that for a tenant, I prefer a system that requires little maintenance, because we are never on the investment of a tenant .Now if the granule is really as simple to maintain, why not.
Regarding solar, we will come at least for water. now the storage in the ground, if the idea is attractive: 75m² of roofs exposed on, with about 2000h of sun per year, it can heat up a lot, but the soil is granite, so drill 30 m all along the house it may cost us a fortune. remains a storage in a water tank placed in the cellar. (to think and budget)
In addition, assimilate a two storey house more combes without party walls to a semi buried house, even if the walls are thick (because 90 cm below, but in general, the thicknesses decrease while going up towards the roof (I am not still in there, so can't make measurements)) maybe it's a little quick shortcut.
on the other hand, I retain the fact that considering the inertia of the walls insulation from the outside is not very interesting, because it will already be necessary to heat the wall, suddenly it falls well that one cannot do it.
free wood, we must not dream, it is a particularly important additional income currently for farmers who morlent badly. cheaper than in town it's safe, but free, except when you do it yourself.
0 x
We must see the conductivity and the diffusivity thermal and granite on the internet to calculate the losses and thermal constants in order of magnitude.
Otherwise 10m is enough at most and not 30m and even 3 to 4m is enough to isolate over 6 months by diffusion time constant.
We can limit ourselves to heating the cellar and the base of the house, as we speak on fiabitat.com.
The difficulty is that it is unknown in France, and therefore you have to create everything.
Fuel oil is not so quiet, smell, breakdowns, see:
https://www.econologie.com/forums/post184914.html#184914
He is happy to have a basic stove that works on its own without a pump; no electricity !!
The pellets depend on boilers and brands and on electricity.
see the 113 pages of:
https://www.econologie.com/forums/post184993.html#184993
and also breakdowns and galleys like:
https://www.econologie.com/forums/post184837.html#184837
The most tranquil is the electricity then the city gas: for me, for one of my houses, 25 years without problem with gas, maintenance by myself alone (small cleaning and repaired within the hour !!).
complex heat pumps have a short lifespan 8 years after unknown on repairs (my personal case elsewhere obliged to change everything new!) !!
The heating professionals are looking for the maximum work and therefore the life of the boilers calculated for 8 to 10 years (modernization, breakdowns, etc. !!!
I don't know about you, but often in the countryside there are more power outages than in the city for longer, and non-electric heating is really essential !! (basic stove), like I had in another house during the Christmas storm 1999, 15 days to see EDF intervene on the line !!
If you want less problem, try to avoid electronics and microprocessors, inevitable on pellets, fuel oil, and modern boiler that subjects you to a repairer, who sometimes is overwhelmed by the problem and forces you to change the boiler or stove !
The yield is misleading, the insulation gains much more !!
Wood in logs of 1m remains the cheapest, much less than pellets which are close to fuel oil.
If you have hedges and some trees you will have wood to burn and with neighbors like me, you can recover lots of thrown plants perfectly burnable !!
There are fully automatic log boilers (mixed and pellets) which clean themselves, more expensive than pellets but interesting by the savings of a factor more than two on wood !!
Otherwise 10m is enough at most and not 30m and even 3 to 4m is enough to isolate over 6 months by diffusion time constant.
We can limit ourselves to heating the cellar and the base of the house, as we speak on fiabitat.com.
The difficulty is that it is unknown in France, and therefore you have to create everything.
Fuel oil is not so quiet, smell, breakdowns, see:
https://www.econologie.com/forums/post184914.html#184914
He is happy to have a basic stove that works on its own without a pump; no electricity !!
The pellets depend on boilers and brands and on electricity.
see the 113 pages of:
https://www.econologie.com/forums/post184993.html#184993
and also breakdowns and galleys like:
https://www.econologie.com/forums/post184837.html#184837
The most tranquil is the electricity then the city gas: for me, for one of my houses, 25 years without problem with gas, maintenance by myself alone (small cleaning and repaired within the hour !!).
complex heat pumps have a short lifespan 8 years after unknown on repairs (my personal case elsewhere obliged to change everything new!) !!
The heating professionals are looking for the maximum work and therefore the life of the boilers calculated for 8 to 10 years (modernization, breakdowns, etc. !!!
I don't know about you, but often in the countryside there are more power outages than in the city for longer, and non-electric heating is really essential !! (basic stove), like I had in another house during the Christmas storm 1999, 15 days to see EDF intervene on the line !!
If you want less problem, try to avoid electronics and microprocessors, inevitable on pellets, fuel oil, and modern boiler that subjects you to a repairer, who sometimes is overwhelmed by the problem and forces you to change the boiler or stove !
The yield is misleading, the insulation gains much more !!
Wood in logs of 1m remains the cheapest, much less than pellets which are close to fuel oil.
If you have hedges and some trees you will have wood to burn and with neighbors like me, you can recover lots of thrown plants perfectly burnable !!
There are fully automatic log boilers (mixed and pellets) which clean themselves, more expensive than pellets but interesting by the savings of a factor more than two on wood !!
0 x
-
aerialcastor
- Grand Econologue
- posts: 865
- Registration: 10/05/09, 16:39
- x 21
Renovation of an old house should always be done with humidity regulation in mind.
Old houses have no capillary break at the bottom of the walls. There are therefore upwelling in the walls.
The water in the walls must be able to evaporate naturally. It is the same with the low floor So avoid non-breathable materials: cement, plastic coating, polyane, lino, ...
For the same reason, whether it is from the inside or the outside (iti or ite), the insulation must be done with hygroscopic materials, put in direct contact with the wall so as not to block the evaporation of water. which rises by capillarity. Air gaps between walls and insulation are therefore to be avoided.
Is the cellar buried?
Bioclimatic house therefore .... What is the area of glazing in the South?
In order to take advantage of the solar gains, it will be necessary to have inertia in the house. You have to store the heat somewhere and the best and cheapest is the walls. So immediately dismiss insulation from the outside (ITE) is not the best idea.
25cm is not bad indeed. Do not forget the vapor barrier (to be chosen according to the rain barrier), to avoid condensation and ensure air tightness.
As I said above, the iti will deprive you of the inertia of the house which is very harmful.
On the one hand you will not be able to store the solar gains, nor the freshness of the summer, which will strongly influence the consumption of heating (on the rise obviously)
On the other hand, as you consider a stove, you should know that the inertia will smooth the temperature curve and avoid having peaks of hot and cold.
Also a very inertial house does not drop in temperature (or little) at night, which will not be the case with a house without inertia. And with a wood stove it is very pleasant to get up and it is still hot.
In addition the iti causes loss of living space.
Yes indeed. as well as solar gain.
Moreover, in a bioclimatic house, it is strongly recommended not to install a heated floor. It takes too long to "respond".
Typically: the night is cold, the regulation of the boiler sends the calories in the underfloor heating, that takes charge only a few hours. In the morning it is warm all is well. Except that the sun comes and sends its calories through the windows is overheating.
The reverse also occurs. At the start of the day in the sun, the solar gains are sufficient, the regulation does not heat the floor since it is good. But in the afternoon the sun hides. More solar gain and the floor is cold. No longer wait a few hours for the floor to heat up.
Reactive heating is required. For this, the wood stove is ideal.
Of course all this depends on the glazing area in the South.
I also always find it smarter to invest in insulation than in the heating system.
The € 20000 of the boilers would provide top insulation, and be content with a wood stove.
Only a thorough thermal study can answer the question.
As you cannot insulate the North wall from the outside (maybe you have to arrange with the neighbor) Do not hesitate to do both ITI and ITE with a return of a minimum of one meter to avoid thermal bridges.
This is obviously completely false ...
There will be a thermal bridge at ground level for sure. But the 300m² of insulated walls will be felt.
In addition, this thermal bridge exists whether in ITI or ITE.
To reduce this thermal bridge in the case of an ITE, the insulation must be lowered below the ground. By disbursing little by little the old houses, no foundations.
Or / and make an insulating sidewalk (horizontal insulation) which also prevents infiltration water.
+1
Comparing 250m3 of walls to thousands of m3 of earth in the case of a buried house makes no sense.
False.
A strong inertia shifts the heating season: in summer, the walls are charged thanks to the ambient temperature (and keep the house cool). The house "stores" its calories. And when your neighbors start their heating season, you will benefit from its stored calories.
Once again, inertia makes it possible to store the solar gains and therefore to reduce the heating needs, and to increase comfort by smoothing the temperatures.
To be able to respond more accurately, we would need as much information and photos as possible.
Glazing area to the South.
Roof orientation and slope
Cave buried or not
Type of materials for the walls
Budget envisaged
...
Old houses have no capillary break at the bottom of the walls. There are therefore upwelling in the walls.
The water in the walls must be able to evaporate naturally. It is the same with the low floor So avoid non-breathable materials: cement, plastic coating, polyane, lino, ...
For the same reason, whether it is from the inside or the outside (iti or ite), the insulation must be done with hygroscopic materials, put in direct contact with the wall so as not to block the evaporation of water. which rises by capillarity. Air gaps between walls and insulation are therefore to be avoided.
Is the cellar buried?
the house is about 100m² per level, on two levels, with attic space. or on a cellar of 80 m².
building all in length as it is done well here, with stone walls, thickness of 90cm if I'm not mistaken ..
large north facade without opening, facade with many windows, fairly recent double glazing.
Bioclimatic house therefore .... What is the area of glazing in the South?
In order to take advantage of the solar gains, it will be necessary to have inertia in the house. You have to store the heat somewhere and the best and cheapest is the walls. So immediately dismiss insulation from the outside (ITE) is not the best idea.
We are thinking of insulating the roof space with 20 to 25 cm of loose injected cellulose wool. with paneling lining to add a bit of insulation.
25cm is not bad indeed. Do not forget the vapor barrier (to be chosen according to the rain barrier), to avoid condensation and ensure air tightness.
Regarding the insulation of the walls, the insulation from the outside is complicated, because the wall to the north is at the edge of the property, and it is the most important to insulate.
the choice will therefore be for interior insulation, but we still have a lot of questions about the materials to choose
As I said above, the iti will deprive you of the inertia of the house which is very harmful.
On the one hand you will not be able to store the solar gains, nor the freshness of the summer, which will strongly influence the consumption of heating (on the rise obviously)
On the other hand, as you consider a stove, you should know that the inertia will smooth the temperature curve and avoid having peaks of hot and cold.
Also a very inertial house does not drop in temperature (or little) at night, which will not be the case with a house without inertia. And with a wood stove it is very pleasant to get up and it is still hot.
In addition the iti causes loss of living space.
Regarding heating, I was told that the problem of a wood stove in auxiliary heating could disrupt the regulation of the main boiler.
Yes indeed. as well as solar gain.
Moreover, in a bioclimatic house, it is strongly recommended not to install a heated floor. It takes too long to "respond".
Typically: the night is cold, the regulation of the boiler sends the calories in the underfloor heating, that takes charge only a few hours. In the morning it is warm all is well. Except that the sun comes and sends its calories through the windows is overheating.
The reverse also occurs. At the start of the day in the sun, the solar gains are sufficient, the regulation does not heat the floor since it is good. But in the afternoon the sun hides. More solar gain and the floor is cold. No longer wait a few hours for the floor to heat up.
Reactive heating is required. For this, the wood stove is ideal.
Of course all this depends on the glazing area in the South.
I also always find it smarter to invest in insulation than in the heating system.
The € 20000 of the boilers would provide top insulation, and be content with a wood stove.
Only a thorough thermal study can answer the question.
As you cannot insulate the North wall from the outside (maybe you have to arrange with the neighbor) Do not hesitate to do both ITI and ITE with a return of a minimum of one meter to avoid thermal bridges.
your house has a great inertia with this mass of stone (of what nature, limestone, granite, volcano,) in direct contact with the earth (therefore the external insulation is not very useful short-circuited by the ground) and therefore always at temperature annual average of 10 ° C to 13 ° C (at 1000m altitude I am not sure) never hot and never cold !! and very long to heat with tens of tons of stone.
This is obviously completely false ...
There will be a thermal bridge at ground level for sure. But the 300m² of insulated walls will be felt.
In addition, this thermal bridge exists whether in ITI or ITE.
To reduce this thermal bridge in the case of an ITE, the insulation must be lowered below the ground. By disbursing little by little the old houses, no foundations.
Or / and make an insulating sidewalk (horizontal insulation) which also prevents infiltration water.
In addition, assimilate a two storey house more combes without party walls to a semi buried house, even if the walls are thick (because 90 cm below, but in general, the thicknesses decrease while going up towards the roof (I am not still in there, so can't make measurements)) maybe it's a little quick shortcut.
+1
Comparing 250m3 of walls to thousands of m3 of earth in the case of a buried house makes no sense.
on the other hand, I retain the fact that considering the inertia of the walls insulation from the outside is not very interesting, because it will already be necessary to heat the wall, suddenly it falls well that one cannot do it.
False.
A strong inertia shifts the heating season: in summer, the walls are charged thanks to the ambient temperature (and keep the house cool). The house "stores" its calories. And when your neighbors start their heating season, you will benefit from its stored calories.
Once again, inertia makes it possible to store the solar gains and therefore to reduce the heating needs, and to increase comfort by smoothing the temperatures.
To be able to respond more accurately, we would need as much information and photos as possible.
Glazing area to the South.
Roof orientation and slope
Cave buried or not
Type of materials for the walls
Budget envisaged
...
0 x
Save a tree, eat a beaver.
It is no use to succeed in life, what it takes is to miss his death.
It is no use to succeed in life, what it takes is to miss his death.
-
aerialcastor
- Grand Econologue
- posts: 865
- Registration: 10/05/09, 16:39
- x 21
Good evening,
so I will try to answer the questions in order.
Regarding the wood stove, it is indeed essential for me, effectively in the event of a power cut, it can save, and we are concerned. then, on the emotional side, I like wood fires, even in a closed hearth (essential for good performance).
and then it can make additional heating for the coldest days. all that remains is to size its power.
concerning the heating, not electric for me, it is hypocrisy concerning the pollution which is just delocalized and deferred in time. city gas heating, there is no network, so it's not very practical either.
regarding the window area, I don't have it yet. It should not be long, because the final signature is coming soon. the photos will come at that time. To give an idea, no bay windows, just windows, and two glass doors, one in the kitchen and one for the entrance.
concerning the materials, it is stone (granite), covered with a plaster. I do not think there is insulation at present (in the balance sheet, the walls represent 36% of the listed losses).
the cellar is buried.
the roof is oriented almost south (a few degrees to the east). concerning the slope, according to the measurements I have, for two meters horizontally, we arrive at a height of 2,7m. I did not calculate the angle, but it made a significant slope, a little steep for the optimum of the solar, but which allows a fast snow removal.
to return to the insulation of the walls, we can consider insulation from the inside of the north wall (the cold wall (orientation, and frequent north wind in winter)), and keep the inertia of the south wall which captures the heat of the sun, and return it to the house.
as wall insulation, given the recommendations you give, a hemp lime coating could be interesting, but its implementation is complicated? what thickness must be reached to benefit from correct insulation?
Thank you for your help.
another question: all floors are floors, either between cellar and ground floor, or between floors, so no heating floor provided, it would make too many changes.
on the other hand, is it interesting to insulate the floor between the cellar and the ground floor (knowing that the heat rises). because I was thinking of recycling the glass wool from the attic to put it under this floor. it is perhaps not the most econological insulator, but rather than throwing it away, ...
so I will try to answer the questions in order.
Regarding the wood stove, it is indeed essential for me, effectively in the event of a power cut, it can save, and we are concerned. then, on the emotional side, I like wood fires, even in a closed hearth (essential for good performance).
and then it can make additional heating for the coldest days. all that remains is to size its power.
concerning the heating, not electric for me, it is hypocrisy concerning the pollution which is just delocalized and deferred in time. city gas heating, there is no network, so it's not very practical either.
regarding the window area, I don't have it yet. It should not be long, because the final signature is coming soon. the photos will come at that time. To give an idea, no bay windows, just windows, and two glass doors, one in the kitchen and one for the entrance.
concerning the materials, it is stone (granite), covered with a plaster. I do not think there is insulation at present (in the balance sheet, the walls represent 36% of the listed losses).
the cellar is buried.
the roof is oriented almost south (a few degrees to the east). concerning the slope, according to the measurements I have, for two meters horizontally, we arrive at a height of 2,7m. I did not calculate the angle, but it made a significant slope, a little steep for the optimum of the solar, but which allows a fast snow removal.
to return to the insulation of the walls, we can consider insulation from the inside of the north wall (the cold wall (orientation, and frequent north wind in winter)), and keep the inertia of the south wall which captures the heat of the sun, and return it to the house.
as wall insulation, given the recommendations you give, a hemp lime coating could be interesting, but its implementation is complicated? what thickness must be reached to benefit from correct insulation?
Thank you for your help.
another question: all floors are floors, either between cellar and ground floor, or between floors, so no heating floor provided, it would make too many changes.
on the other hand, is it interesting to insulate the floor between the cellar and the ground floor (knowing that the heat rises). because I was thinking of recycling the glass wool from the attic to put it under this floor. it is perhaps not the most econological insulator, but rather than throwing it away, ...
0 x
Good evening, and happy new year everyone.
the house is bought.
the walls are actually 60 cm thick at the bottom, and over 50 cm at the top.
the house consists of two parts glued one against the other: one of 17 by 4,5 meters, and the second of 5 by 7 (22 meters in total length). The first part (the narrowest) has the ground floor, and a floor, topped by the attic to be converted, the second part (the widest) has a ground floor and two floors, then non-convertible attic.
all windows are double glazed aluminum pvc less than 5 years old.
except 4 seated dogs which overlook the attic space.
we have already had some quotes for boilers. others are expected.
the first craftsman,
wolf cob CS 29 kw fuel oil boiler: € 11000 incl.
all-in
the second craftsman.
fuel oil:
buderus G 125 28 KW: € 8600 incl.
all-in
granules:
KWB easyfire usp25 KW 19630 € VAT included
KWB easyfire usp 20 KW 18340 € incl.
All inclusive too (with the construction of the silo)
I can detail the quotes if necessary.
I will therefore have a few questions: do the quotes seem reasonable to you, because it's hard to get an idea of the price of materials?
Quality level, apparently wolf cob and KWB it looks not bad, what about buderus?
Power level, the range seems wide to me, is it better to over or under dimension?
Levels of tax credits, what about 2011, I find it difficult to find consistent information, depending on the websites.
for the exterior insulation, for the north wall, we still think about it, because it is a single wall of 22 m by 7 high, with no opening, so it simplifies the work, and it is really which is recommended everywhere, including you.
on the other hand, if you had price orders for this type of insulation, I would be interested (just to know if we are considering a PTZ or not).
the house is bought.
the walls are actually 60 cm thick at the bottom, and over 50 cm at the top.
the house consists of two parts glued one against the other: one of 17 by 4,5 meters, and the second of 5 by 7 (22 meters in total length). The first part (the narrowest) has the ground floor, and a floor, topped by the attic to be converted, the second part (the widest) has a ground floor and two floors, then non-convertible attic.
all windows are double glazed aluminum pvc less than 5 years old.
except 4 seated dogs which overlook the attic space.
we have already had some quotes for boilers. others are expected.
the first craftsman,
wolf cob CS 29 kw fuel oil boiler: € 11000 incl.
all-in
the second craftsman.
fuel oil:
buderus G 125 28 KW: € 8600 incl.
all-in
granules:
KWB easyfire usp25 KW 19630 € VAT included
KWB easyfire usp 20 KW 18340 € incl.
All inclusive too (with the construction of the silo)
I can detail the quotes if necessary.
I will therefore have a few questions: do the quotes seem reasonable to you, because it's hard to get an idea of the price of materials?
Quality level, apparently wolf cob and KWB it looks not bad, what about buderus?
Power level, the range seems wide to me, is it better to over or under dimension?
Levels of tax credits, what about 2011, I find it difficult to find consistent information, depending on the websites.
for the exterior insulation, for the north wall, we still think about it, because it is a single wall of 22 m by 7 high, with no opening, so it simplifies the work, and it is really which is recommended everywhere, including you.
on the other hand, if you had price orders for this type of insulation, I would be interested (just to know if we are considering a PTZ or not).
0 x
Le granite is a good conductor of cold 40% more than concrete !!
First, you have to know if the walls are a little insulated (double partitions? With what or not? With total certainty !!
Since you are at 1000m above sea level, colder, it is to your advantage not to be mistaken about the power required because an uninsulated or slightly insulated wall is not the same. !!
29KW on 200m2 uninsulated granite walls at 1000m may be insufficient ??????????????
Pros not concerned can be wrong, see examples on econology who can't heat up with the new boiler !!
If the professionals do not look very carefully at the insulation, the surfaces, etc. I would have little confidence in determining the power required.
What is the T mini and how many days in winter?
Second be on the power of the old boiler !! With total certainty !! look at the size of the tank and the burner.
Oil may not be worth changing the boiler, the burner alone? ??
Right now the old boiler works ??
Look at its consumption to get warm and measure its real max power.
Look at the current heating, radiators, what works or not, to avoid discovering afterwards, that old elements not changed by the pro are to be changed !!
Separate the price of the boiler well from that of installation to compare.
Materials are easier to verify.
Check the valid insurance policies of installers and references, because if errors or problems (or even bankruptcy) you will have recourse to this insurance, like me against architect and mason, after 7 years of procedures won !!
At the end it is necessary to make a report of reception with reservations !! otherwise less insurance !!
For new I would not be attracted by the fuel.
I would tend to take a multi-wood boiler, chips, logs and pellets, especially for almost € 20000. that KWB doesn't do.
Others make logs and pellets !!
KWB does not seem to have many user reviews in France !! especially in German !!
Also, beware of professionals who have never installed the boiler or very few, galley guaranteed !!
look
https://www.econologie.com/forums/post99573.html#99573
and other info !!! especially users.
On the internet, KWB is looking for installers and therefore the risk of a new installer forming on your boiler ????
So go see the max of people who already have the type of boiler with this installer !! to see their opinion !!
Also, beware of professionals who have never installed the boiler or very few, galley insured !!
Check the sources of pellets and price and quality, cheaper wafers ??
Look at the wood and its price, in my opinion much cheaper in 10 cubic meters or more !!
Check everything and beware.
Even being suspicious, like me, we can have problems !!!
The 60cm walls will remain a thermal bridge for T of the soil 10 ° C ??? even with external insulation. It is necessary to calculate with the dimensions and conductivities.
It will take a very long time to heat with a huge inertia, which can require a huge boiler power, if you don't want to wait a week to get hot (in my opinion 10 times more than concrete blocks with 60cm of granite, so around 10 days) ????
The real pros installers must explain it to you !!
The ancients lived at this temperature 10 ° -13 ° C, barely heated in winter with the animals not far away !!! and -10 ° C outside ???
First, you have to know if the walls are a little insulated (double partitions? With what or not? With total certainty !!
Since you are at 1000m above sea level, colder, it is to your advantage not to be mistaken about the power required because an uninsulated or slightly insulated wall is not the same. !!
29KW on 200m2 uninsulated granite walls at 1000m may be insufficient ??????????????
Pros not concerned can be wrong, see examples on econology who can't heat up with the new boiler !!
If the professionals do not look very carefully at the insulation, the surfaces, etc. I would have little confidence in determining the power required.
What is the T mini and how many days in winter?
Second be on the power of the old boiler !! With total certainty !! look at the size of the tank and the burner.
Oil may not be worth changing the boiler, the burner alone? ??
Right now the old boiler works ??
Look at its consumption to get warm and measure its real max power.
Look at the current heating, radiators, what works or not, to avoid discovering afterwards, that old elements not changed by the pro are to be changed !!
Separate the price of the boiler well from that of installation to compare.
Materials are easier to verify.
Check the valid insurance policies of installers and references, because if errors or problems (or even bankruptcy) you will have recourse to this insurance, like me against architect and mason, after 7 years of procedures won !!
At the end it is necessary to make a report of reception with reservations !! otherwise less insurance !!
For new I would not be attracted by the fuel.
I would tend to take a multi-wood boiler, chips, logs and pellets, especially for almost € 20000. that KWB doesn't do.
Others make logs and pellets !!
KWB does not seem to have many user reviews in France !! especially in German !!
Also, beware of professionals who have never installed the boiler or very few, galley guaranteed !!
look
https://www.econologie.com/forums/post99573.html#99573
and other info !!! especially users.
On the internet, KWB is looking for installers and therefore the risk of a new installer forming on your boiler ????
So go see the max of people who already have the type of boiler with this installer !! to see their opinion !!
Also, beware of professionals who have never installed the boiler or very few, galley insured !!
Check the sources of pellets and price and quality, cheaper wafers ??
Look at the wood and its price, in my opinion much cheaper in 10 cubic meters or more !!
Check everything and beware.
Even being suspicious, like me, we can have problems !!!
The 60cm walls will remain a thermal bridge for T of the soil 10 ° C ??? even with external insulation. It is necessary to calculate with the dimensions and conductivities.
It will take a very long time to heat with a huge inertia, which can require a huge boiler power, if you don't want to wait a week to get hot (in my opinion 10 times more than concrete blocks with 60cm of granite, so around 10 days) ????
The real pros installers must explain it to you !!
The ancients lived at this temperature 10 ° -13 ° C, barely heated in winter with the animals not far away !!! and -10 ° C outside ???
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oiseautempete
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