Insulate attic, hemp and cellulose panels

Heating, insulation, ventilation, VMC, cooling ... short thermal comfort. Insulation, wood energy, heat pumps but also electricity, gas or oil, VMC ... Help in choosing and implementation, problem solving, optimization, tips and tricks ...
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jean63
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by jean63 » 25/01/08, 20:52

Christophe wrote:
jean63 wrote:If you had read some comments on the subject (including mine), you would have put a mask and protections on arms and hands, because it scrapes well after laying (whether glass wool wool or hemp, I think it is kiff..kiff !!) Attention the lungs !! : Evil:


What are you worried about? It was for info ... the glass wool thank you I knew (who does not know?) But for the hemp I thought it was not necessary ... That's all ...

jean63 wrote:For hemp wool, the Canadian specialist had said it not long ago.


Yes, but in "panels" I thought it was less dusty, but it's wrong ... I just mounted 2 m² that's all ...

Thank you for worrying about my lungs ... for cellulose do not worry I planned 2 masks! : Cheesy:

NO I'm not mad, I just wanted to report the DANGER for bronchioles in your lungs (assuming it's certainly less harmful than glass wool or rock particles). I tell you that because ja'i isolated (there is + 20 years) all the walls and under-roof of my house, if I find the invoice I will give the surface and thickness; it was panels of semi-rigid rock wool (at the time, we advised it rather than glass wool, other natural materials we did not talk about, eg in Germany?).

This is the worst memory of all the work done in the house and even outside the house (mechanics etc.). I really pity those who do this every day in their job.

You do not have a very large surface and it is on the ground so it will go, but when you have the panels above the head and the small particles fall on you you do not regret to have been well protected .

Good luck. : Mrgreen:
Last edited by jean63 the 25 / 01 / 08, 21: 00, 1 edited once.
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bham
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by bham » 25/01/08, 20:57

Framing with IPN metal?
What are the white panels on the roof? polystyrene? Is it insulation in sarking?

For the Christmas gift, be careful anyway, it's Christine who will make fun ... :D
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by Christophe » 25/01/08, 21:46

Ayéééééééééééé it's over !! More than 6 h of work for 40m ², I shit my **** !!

I just took a shower, never in my life the water in my shower was so dirty ... and yet I was already very dirty in my life : Mrgreen: : roll:

I do not know if I will have the courage to treat videos and photos remaining tonight ... I think you can wait until tomorrow :)

There is the answer to your question in one of the videos ... it is a construction a little strange ... jte lets cogitate but if you are in a hurry you will easily find the answer on the forums. I have already spoken several times about the building materials of our barracks.

The sarking I never heard about it what is it?

ps: for Christmas it was in my list, I quote: "rotten clothes for DIY" : Cheesy:
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by bham » 26/01/08, 10:20

Christophe wrote:There is the answer to your question in one of the videos ... it is a construction a little strange ... jte lets cogitate but if you are in a hurry you will easily find the answer on the forums. I have already spoken several times about the building materials of our barracks.

Do not remember (or never seen) but finally it would surprise me that it is insulation since you are isolating (hihi!) So pit-being thin concrete.

Christophe wrote:The sarking I never heard about it what is it?

It is an insulation method that consists of isolating a roof from the outside by laying on the rafters long sheets of rigid insulation.

By the way, where does your hemp wool come from? At Isover hemp wool contains 10 20% polyester and cotton wool; not super green polyester.
I did not know it was as irritating as the glass / rock wool, weird.
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by Christophe » 26/01/08, 10:37

1) For the roof wait a few minutes am on the photos and videos there! But the answer is almost in your question ... :D You warm up!

2) For hemp, I'm not sure, it's CANAFLEX and it also seemed to me that there was "something else" than hemp (white cotton-style balls). I didn't try to find out more and I don't know if you can see this in the photos ...

By cons I do not know what you hear not irritating but I did not say it was irritating to the skin but the possen takes the throat ... more or less than another dust ca I do not know .. .
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by Christophe » 26/01/08, 11:17

Here is the "report" of my experience of yesterday, photos to support (the videos it takes more time to process so it will be for the end of this afternoon I think).

A) General impressions and unfolding of the pose

- the very first contact with cellulose is very nice: to the touch it does not irritate the hands and it is very soft and no dust when "unpacking" the bags. Unfortunately, it will get complicated to quickly be the opposite ...

- the method of laying by hand is very simple: the compressed cellulose must be flocculated as much as possible. In other words very simply: must "break the amats / lumps of cellulose" ...

- Problem: when we have scattered 2 bags "by hand" and we see the time spent for the volume spread, we start to get a little annoyed, so we use the leaf collector that we had judiciously mounted to the 'advanced...

- The method does not work very well ... especially because the leaf pick-up is too "flexible" ...

- We ask someone to come up a rake so .... hoping it's better for break the big clods and spread / break the small clumps with the leaf picker ...

- It doesn't really work well: it takes a lot of time and 20 to 30% less volume than what had been "planned" ... in short, it does not flocculate enough (lack of air, lack of volume) ...

- We think about the tools we have in the garage that could be used to "flocculate" ...

- We think about the tools we have in the garage that could be used to "flocculate" ...

- We think about the tools we have in the garage that could be used to "flocculate" ...

- When one has thought during 3 bags, the head in the cellulose ...we think about cutting edge ... so we try and CA WALK really not bad ... finally especially to make dust!

- And that's where hell in the attic starts !! It works as well to flocculate as to create an abominable dust! This method works really well and avoids having to rent a special machine very expensive but do not really be afraid of dust! It's abominable really ... now the photos ... (when we managed to take some ...)
Last edited by Christophe the 29 / 03 / 08, 13: 59, 1 edited once.
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by jean63 » 26/01/08, 11:36

Christophe wrote:Here is the "report" of my experience of yesterday, photos to support (the videos it takes more time to process so it will be for the end of this afternoon I think).

A) General impressions and unfolding of the pose

- the very first contact with cellulose is very nice: to the touch it does not irritate the hands and it is very soft and no dust when "unpacking" the bags. Unfortunately, it will get complicated to quickly be the opposite ...

- the method of laying by hand is very simple: the compressed cellulose must be flocculated as much as possible. In other words very simply: must "break the amats / lumps of cellulose" ...

- Problem: when we have scattered 2 bags "by hand" and we see the time spent for the volume spread, we start to get a little annoyed, so we use the leaf collector that we had judiciously mounted to the 'advanced...

- The method does not work very well ... especially because the leaf pick-up is too "flexible" ...

- We ask someone to come up a rake so .... hoping it's better for break the big clods and spread / break the small clumps with the leaf picker ...

- It doesn't really work well: it takes a lot of time and 20 to 30% less volume than what had been "planned" ... in short, it does not flocculate enough (lack of air, lack of volume) ...

- We think about the tools we have in the garage that could be used to "flocculate" ...

- We think about the tools we have in the garage that could be used to "flocculate" ...

- We think about the tools we have in the garage that could be used to "flocculate" ...

- When one has thought during 3 bags, the head in the cellulose ...we think about cutting edge ... so we try and CA WALK really not bad ... finally especially to make dust!

- And that's where hell in the attic starts !! It works as well for flocculating as for creating abominable dust! This method therefore works really well and avoids having to rent a very expensive special machine, but you really should not be afraid of dust !! It's really terrible ... now the photos ... (when we managed to take some ...)


...you surprise me !!!

Have you blown up since yesterday? Are you all that morning?

Hope you had a good mask! when I see the reduced (and the same volume) and closed space, you imagine the quantity of fine particles which "fly" around you. In your place I'll go for a long walk in the fresh air while walking-running to get these crap out of your lungs.

With rockwool, I especially had irritation on the skin (handles and hand, at the junction between the gloves and the long sleeves of my vest or sweatshirt). I always wore a basic mask, but in fact I think you need a good waterproof mask.

The white panels seen under the roof look like insulation. I think there must be a small layer of insulation under the sensors, it's logical, but surely insufficient. In my roof I had laid 2 layers of 10 cms of rockwool, but all my rooms and living room / mezzanine are under roof (no ceiling except in a room on the ground floor, so it needed a good insulation because the larger losses are done by ceilings and roofs).

Your insulation should know about the ambient temperature.
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by gegyx » 26/01/08, 12:17

Christophe wrote: We think about the tools we have in the garage that could be used to "flocculate" ...
- When one has thought during 3 bags, the head in the cellulose ...we think about cutting edge ... so we try and CA WALK really not bad ... finally especially to make dust!

Image Thank you for the first steps, "Homo Habilis"
Well, now that you have flocculated well, while thinking, consider the machine flocculate outside, and bring the flocculated blown in the attic with a pipe ...

:?: A cutter + a washing machine drum or drying machine + a fan 4kw ....

€€€€€€€€€€€€€€€€€€€€€€€€€€€€€€€€€

Otherwise for dust, if the protective mask is not enough, there is the diving mask, with a total filter on the tip of the tuba (an ordinary mask attached by an elastic) ...

: Arrow: Eye and lung protection, for not a cent more.

As for the difficulty of breathing, with this apparatus, it is only a foretaste of the probable atmosphere to come in 20 years ... : Mrgreen:

You can do healthier by extending the tuba through a pipe that will get fresh air elsewhere (under pressure if the pipe is long).

:| In such companies, we are always in a hurry, and we foolishly expose ourselves, minimizing the potential risks.

Me, it would make me (even more) hurt, to catch a silicosis, with paper fibers, from the Figaro, or from an Austrian populist newspaper ... : Lol:
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by Christophe » 26/01/08, 12:53

B) Photos

1er contact / opening: the dust is there but really limited ...

Image

After a good hour of spreading "by hand" ... the dust increases but it remains really reasonable compared to what will follow!

Image

We find ZE SOLUTION: ZE CUT BORDER!

Image

And here is the result in terms of dust We gain 30% of volume compared to the "manual" method ... and I even wonder if it does not work better than the flocculation method used by the pros... the dust, of course!

Image

I am hanging on the "end" of the edge cutter that can be seen in the spot beams! For info, it's the SPOT MEGAMAN from 30 W (150W in classical) taken at 3 m about ...

"Level gauge" (the board stands alone without problem: this shows the internal cohesion of the cellulose)

Image

With cellulose we take 50 years in hair and hair in a few hours

Image
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by Christophe » 26/01/08, 14:12

ps: renting a flocculating machine is in the 200 € per day and must especially find it ... for DIY proposed by gegyx, a bit oversized compared to the cost and no work?

For rent, it was a rise of 50% on the price of cellulose ... so a little too expensive for me ...

Otherwise, thank you for worrying about my lungs but you shouldn't be paranoid either, it's not in a few hours that you develop silicosis (what is it?) I don't think I have coughed once in " high "but the mask was very dirty.

So a priori they have not suffered too much from the operation ... a little maso anyway but good :) :) Well, there are some who are dedicated to the planet huh! : Mrgreen:
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