1) Except in special cases, the inserts are poor "heating systems" ... (even if there are some models with post-combustion, etc ...) ... Especially if they are inserted in an old fireplace , with stone walls, etc ... which absorb some of the calories and radiation to the side, to the back ...
(however, this heat is not "wasted").
2) A stove already has a yielding honey.
Afterwards, if space permits, a mass stove allows a better performance to be obtained, while "smoothing" the temperature.
3) Automation is possible with pellets (wood pellets).
4) And it is possible to install a boiler-stove (sometimes called "hydro" or "hidro"), with then a more or less important part of the heat which can be sent into a heating system by radiators. .
Cerayins are almost "nicely" dressed boilers. Well, the bill goes up then too!
Is it possible to transform an oil boiler?
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- Grand Econologue
- posts: 1155
- Registration: 21/06/09, 01:02
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- x 2
Good evening,
in terms of inertia it works if the insulation of the house is done from the outside, if it is good interior insulation only the heavy partitions will play the role of thermal mass.
Before thinking about heating it is better to think about insulation, the heating compensates for the losses due to bad insulation, thermal bridges and air renewal.
If not at first for little cost there is the simple system that captaine maloche to explain here even (oil burner has blue flame), it is already a beginning which can allow some savings.
Did67, correct me if I'm wrong, but the residues from the combustion of the pellet must especially appear during start-up and shutdown, this is where the combustion is bad and it smokes.
Suddenly in my little head I tell myself that we would especially need a double exhaust duct which would be used during the start and stop phase, with a key (which can be actuated automatically) in order to send the flame in the boiler once the burner is in nominal mode?
If the burner has a combustion efficiency of 95% (it still has to be there), deposits will only be minimal and therefore cleaning will have to be less frequent, but still present ...
On the cleaning side, you also have to see how the boiler is made, it may be very difficult to clean efficiently, and the solution of pellet or wood or in some form whatsoever seems to me to be well compromised.
Otherwise there is also the solution to use the boiler as a boiler but to add a separate hearth to burn logs (once again on condition that you can clean the boiler) ... Small size detail, the space taken will be more important. And I would say that there too it would be good to make a double conduit which would be used for starting and stopping ...
as for cleaning if not, the okofen system is indeed springs in the passage tubes for heat, e activating the residues fall?
When it comes to transforming an oil boiler into an efficient wood boiler, there is, as I would say, a game of mechanics and metal construction which does not seem simple to me, between 1st and secondary air in order to obtain good combustion. . personally I would not recommend this solution (I'm in my 4th stove modify and on a stove it's already a cool game then on a boiler ??? and I repeat to have an efficient combustion not just fire, fire everyone thinks they know how but in reality when we have gone into detail can people know that wood is 80% hydrocarbon and 20% wood mass) ...
To summarize I would therefore say:
1 / Request or make a blue flame system on the existing burner at first
2 / see what you can do with insulation, with the new aid of 1300 euros added to the already existing aid.
3 / Then see if cleaning the boiler is possible effectively.
4 / if you opt for an insert or a stove, take a model with secondary combustion, the other models I would call that nigaud catches, you also have the mass stove solution, which in the end is a very good solution because thermal storage, and outbreaks or outbreaks which is very effective and allows you to be warm when you get up in the morning ...
in terms of inertia it works if the insulation of the house is done from the outside, if it is good interior insulation only the heavy partitions will play the role of thermal mass.
Before thinking about heating it is better to think about insulation, the heating compensates for the losses due to bad insulation, thermal bridges and air renewal.
If not at first for little cost there is the simple system that captaine maloche to explain here even (oil burner has blue flame), it is already a beginning which can allow some savings.
Did67, correct me if I'm wrong, but the residues from the combustion of the pellet must especially appear during start-up and shutdown, this is where the combustion is bad and it smokes.
Suddenly in my little head I tell myself that we would especially need a double exhaust duct which would be used during the start and stop phase, with a key (which can be actuated automatically) in order to send the flame in the boiler once the burner is in nominal mode?
If the burner has a combustion efficiency of 95% (it still has to be there), deposits will only be minimal and therefore cleaning will have to be less frequent, but still present ...
On the cleaning side, you also have to see how the boiler is made, it may be very difficult to clean efficiently, and the solution of pellet or wood or in some form whatsoever seems to me to be well compromised.
Otherwise there is also the solution to use the boiler as a boiler but to add a separate hearth to burn logs (once again on condition that you can clean the boiler) ... Small size detail, the space taken will be more important. And I would say that there too it would be good to make a double conduit which would be used for starting and stopping ...
as for cleaning if not, the okofen system is indeed springs in the passage tubes for heat, e activating the residues fall?
When it comes to transforming an oil boiler into an efficient wood boiler, there is, as I would say, a game of mechanics and metal construction which does not seem simple to me, between 1st and secondary air in order to obtain good combustion. . personally I would not recommend this solution (I'm in my 4th stove modify and on a stove it's already a cool game then on a boiler ??? and I repeat to have an efficient combustion not just fire, fire everyone thinks they know how but in reality when we have gone into detail can people know that wood is 80% hydrocarbon and 20% wood mass) ...
To summarize I would therefore say:
1 / Request or make a blue flame system on the existing burner at first
2 / see what you can do with insulation, with the new aid of 1300 euros added to the already existing aid.
3 / Then see if cleaning the boiler is possible effectively.
4 / if you opt for an insert or a stove, take a model with secondary combustion, the other models I would call that nigaud catches, you also have the mass stove solution, which in the end is a very good solution because thermal storage, and outbreaks or outbreaks which is very effective and allows you to be warm when you get up in the morning ...
0 x
- chatelot16
- Econologue expert
- posts: 6960
- Registration: 11/11/07, 17:33
- Location: Angouleme
- x 264
the pelet or plate burner we necessarily have an air blower, this is what makes the ash fly as it goes along and which fouls the boiler ... this is not a story of performance combustion or poor start
why there is less ash with a pellet burner than in an ordinary wood fire: in my opinion quite simply because with ordinary wood the ash remains at the bottom, while with the pelet it leaves through the chimney
and also because pellet boilers are more efficient and burn less fuel
why there is less ash with a pellet burner than in an ordinary wood fire: in my opinion quite simply because with ordinary wood the ash remains at the bottom, while with the pelet it leaves through the chimney
and also because pellet boilers are more efficient and burn less fuel
0 x
Rabbit; I am vegetarian !!! LOL
so if I leave for the stove / boiler; but ............ in the boiler room; I'm going to have the heating and can I cook?
what equipment should i have? water tank (electric or not?)
what cost can the installation of the system have?
which stove for about 150 square meters?
please
so if I leave for the stove / boiler; but ............ in the boiler room; I'm going to have the heating and can I cook?
what equipment should i have? water tank (electric or not?)
what cost can the installation of the system have?
which stove for about 150 square meters?
please
0 x
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- Grand Econologue
- posts: 1155
- Registration: 21/06/09, 01:02
- Location: Britain BZH powaaa
- x 2
re,
I do a little Hs for chatelot, because I do not agree, what will foul the most is the fatty fumes at start-up and during shutdown and poor combustion due to poor performance (because bad combustion ), yield which also determines the quantity of wood consumed ...
If the ash was solely responsible for the fouling, I am of the opinion that a simple blow of compressed air in the smoke circuit would be enough to do a cleaning, except if there are cleaning springs that itch (in okofen ) it's not for nothing . A smoke (which with pellet is only little water DINplus = - 10% humidity), which is in fact gas, it is fatty and it sticks when it is not burnt (either at start-up especially, and during bad combustion, black on the panes of pan for example or in the casings), to that I agree to you that if on fat you send ashes you get a nice gray crust, fine but still crust ...
, sorry I empty my stove (which is actually an insert that I dress to make a stove) every month and a half and I make fires every day inside for about 6 hours (my old house not insulated while waiting for work of the other which is just beginning). So scuze but I have a very good combustion 87.7% measured with the testo 330 very recently , and my ashes are fine fine fine, not like in a thing or you make a fire to be said to heat but which in fact does not heat and which suddenly leaves you a packet of ash which still contain energy (normally wood without bark 0.2 to 1% ash rate up to 7% for bark only, for pellet dinplus normally the ash rate must be less than 0.5% with good combustion, so these are not your least 0.5% ash that will clog your boiler, or not only) ...
Nouzi you also have the solar thermal panel solution for the summer, so if you couple a boiler to the balloon you kill two birds with one stone, and you reduce the electricity bill by the same amount ...
but nothing beats good insulation ...;) now as the advisers said are not the payers ...
I do a little Hs for chatelot, because I do not agree, what will foul the most is the fatty fumes at start-up and during shutdown and poor combustion due to poor performance (because bad combustion ), yield which also determines the quantity of wood consumed ...
If the ash was solely responsible for the fouling, I am of the opinion that a simple blow of compressed air in the smoke circuit would be enough to do a cleaning, except if there are cleaning springs that itch (in okofen ) it's not for nothing . A smoke (which with pellet is only little water DINplus = - 10% humidity), which is in fact gas, it is fatty and it sticks when it is not burnt (either at start-up especially, and during bad combustion, black on the panes of pan for example or in the casings), to that I agree to you that if on fat you send ashes you get a nice gray crust, fine but still crust ...
why there is less ash with a pellet burner than in an ordinary wood fire: in my opinion quite simply because with ordinary wood the ash remains at the bottom, while with the pellet it leaves through the chimney
, sorry I empty my stove (which is actually an insert that I dress to make a stove) every month and a half and I make fires every day inside for about 6 hours (my old house not insulated while waiting for work of the other which is just beginning). So scuze but I have a very good combustion 87.7% measured with the testo 330 very recently , and my ashes are fine fine fine, not like in a thing or you make a fire to be said to heat but which in fact does not heat and which suddenly leaves you a packet of ash which still contain energy (normally wood without bark 0.2 to 1% ash rate up to 7% for bark only, for pellet dinplus normally the ash rate must be less than 0.5% with good combustion, so these are not your least 0.5% ash that will clog your boiler, or not only) ...
Nouzi you also have the solar thermal panel solution for the summer, so if you couple a boiler to the balloon you kill two birds with one stone, and you reduce the electricity bill by the same amount ...
but nothing beats good insulation ...;) now as the advisers said are not the payers ...
0 x
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- Grand Econologue
- posts: 1155
- Registration: 21/06/09, 01:02
- Location: Britain BZH powaaa
- x 2
Nouzi I just saw your message, I can not let you say that the pellet system requires a lot of maintenance, if the boiler is made of origin for the pellet and well done the maintenance is summary request to did67 and look on the forum in the okofen boiler section (there are other brands but okofen is not far from the top top top, they even make pellet condensing boilers).
After all it depends on what exactly you want to do ...
if it is only heating you, or heating domestic water, or domestic hot water plus heating etc ...
You must already define your needs, then you can start to look at what might be suitable.
That only engages me, but for the heating only I would take the option mass stove, masonry.
as did dis did67 the heat is smoothed over 12 or 24 hours depending on the mass of the stove, and one or two flare-ups per day.
Outbreak which can be made from tightly packed bundles of wood, part of the bundles for rameal wood and the other for the stove ...
In all cases I would opt for one or more solar thermal panels, with a double heating circuit tank which can therefore be connected to a system, either of a boiler, pellet boiler or any other means of water heating. .
Then with regard to stoves or disguised insert (there is some like that mine of nothing;)), favors the performance (so necessarily there must be an inlet of heated secondary air), Jotul not to quote make a very good stove not too expensive, but they are not the only ones.
a yes for the modification of the oil burner with blue flame it is here and not elsewhere;) ....
https://www.econologie.com/forums/ameliorati ... t5172.html
So start with good determine your needs , and suddenly the power which will be a function of your isolation too, there are a lot of discussions on the subject in the forum , use the "search" box, with "boiler stove" for example;) ....
that can give you that as an answer:
https://www.econologie.com/forums/ecs-et-rad ... 10404.html
and more others ;) ...
After all it depends on what exactly you want to do ...
if it is only heating you, or heating domestic water, or domestic hot water plus heating etc ...
You must already define your needs, then you can start to look at what might be suitable.
That only engages me, but for the heating only I would take the option mass stove, masonry.
as did dis did67 the heat is smoothed over 12 or 24 hours depending on the mass of the stove, and one or two flare-ups per day.
Outbreak which can be made from tightly packed bundles of wood, part of the bundles for rameal wood and the other for the stove ...
In all cases I would opt for one or more solar thermal panels, with a double heating circuit tank which can therefore be connected to a system, either of a boiler, pellet boiler or any other means of water heating. .
Then with regard to stoves or disguised insert (there is some like that mine of nothing;)), favors the performance (so necessarily there must be an inlet of heated secondary air), Jotul not to quote make a very good stove not too expensive, but they are not the only ones.
a yes for the modification of the oil burner with blue flame it is here and not elsewhere;) ....
https://www.econologie.com/forums/ameliorati ... t5172.html
So start with good determine your needs , and suddenly the power which will be a function of your isolation too, there are a lot of discussions on the subject in the forum , use the "search" box, with "boiler stove" for example;) ....
that can give you that as an answer:
https://www.econologie.com/forums/ecs-et-rad ... 10404.html
and more others ;) ...
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- chatelot16
- Econologue expert
- posts: 6960
- Registration: 11/11/07, 17:33
- Location: Angouleme
- x 264
it's complicated all that! the poor combustion of fuel oil makes black soot, well conductive of heat, which does not degrade the performance of oil boilers too much
high efficiency wood fires clog the chudiere with something bad heat conductor which is easily cleaned by compressed air ... but for automatic cleaning, the scraping system is simpler
there are also reka boilers, which do not have automatic cleaning, but a special hearth which makes less dust than hearths with more violent ventilation
high efficiency wood fires clog the chudiere with something bad heat conductor which is easily cleaned by compressed air ... but for automatic cleaning, the scraping system is simpler
there are also reka boilers, which do not have automatic cleaning, but a special hearth which makes less dust than hearths with more violent ventilation
0 x
I don't know if I would agree with everyone!
1) The pellets are very dry wood (by standard, maximum 10% humidity; often, the manufacturers are called on about 6%); it is "drier" than flour, or even "dry" cereal grains (which make about 12%).
As a result, the pellets are self-ignited under the influence of a "hair dryer" ...
2) This is one of the factors that cause pellet boilers to obtain performance shuats and combustion that is infinitely cleaner than other wood burning appliances (logs) ...
3) In addition, as has been mentioned, the combustion is controlled: an electronic regulation continuously calculates the supply of pellets (which is regular "so as never to" smother "the fire) and the supply of pellets. air ... The proportions are always optimized so as not to "ventilate" for nothing but without ever running out of air (production of CO) ...
4) And finally, to finish, a pellet boiler has an “anti-condensation” system so that there is never any condensation in the exchangers.
In return for this, a pellet boiler never “smokes” (it emits a white plume like a gas boiler). It produces fine particles which are deposited in the form of a felting (insulating) and not bistre (compact). This felting is cleaned every day by a system of springs which vibrate and make it fall.
At this price, they reach a yield of 93 to 94% at nominal power and 91/92% at minimum power (25 or 30% of nominal power). They modulate their power as needed (outside temperature) to stop as little as possible ...
1) The pellets are very dry wood (by standard, maximum 10% humidity; often, the manufacturers are called on about 6%); it is "drier" than flour, or even "dry" cereal grains (which make about 12%).
As a result, the pellets are self-ignited under the influence of a "hair dryer" ...
2) This is one of the factors that cause pellet boilers to obtain performance shuats and combustion that is infinitely cleaner than other wood burning appliances (logs) ...
3) In addition, as has been mentioned, the combustion is controlled: an electronic regulation continuously calculates the supply of pellets (which is regular "so as never to" smother "the fire) and the supply of pellets. air ... The proportions are always optimized so as not to "ventilate" for nothing but without ever running out of air (production of CO) ...
4) And finally, to finish, a pellet boiler has an “anti-condensation” system so that there is never any condensation in the exchangers.
In return for this, a pellet boiler never “smokes” (it emits a white plume like a gas boiler). It produces fine particles which are deposited in the form of a felting (insulating) and not bistre (compact). This felting is cleaned every day by a system of springs which vibrate and make it fall.
At this price, they reach a yield of 93 to 94% at nominal power and 91/92% at minimum power (25 or 30% of nominal power). They modulate their power as needed (outside temperature) to stop as little as possible ...
0 x
bidouille23 wrote:If the ash was solely responsible for the fouling, I am of the opinion that a simple blow of compressed air in the smoke circuit would be enough to do a cleaning, except if there are cleaning springs that itch (in okofen ) it's not for nothing . A smoke (which with pellet is only little water DINplus = - 10% humidity), which is in fact gas, it is fatty and it sticks when it is not burnt (either at start-up especially, and during bad combustion, black on the panes of pan for example or in the casings), to that I agree to you that if on fat you send ashes you get a nice gray crust, fine but still crust ... ...
Having an Okofen, I can confirm that you are wrong. But chatelot is only half right!
1) There are many sawdust which are carried away by the ventilation and, by burning in flames, make the ashes which are deposited on certain parts (in particular the flat parts at the top of the exchangers). This is removed with the vacuum cleaner.
They also deposit on vertical exchangers.
2) Combustion, even if it is "very clean", nevertheless produces a certain percentage of fine carbon particles (around 20/25 mg / MJ). These particles aggregate into a felting, in particular in exchangers and on turbulators.
It is therefore these deposits that must be "shaken off". This could be done by blowing, but shaking is much simpler, robust and durable (roughly: one motor + one eccentric)!
So there are two things.
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