Isolation of a condemned flue?

[Grumly]

I totally agree that confined air is a great insulator, but you can't get me to believe that the air will remain static on such a volume; a block of more than one meter by 8m high, that is to say more than 1200l one is far from the foam bubble!
If we take the same reasoning, a perfectly waterproof shed is considered isolated ??


For the sand, it is on the 20cm that it will not go; the gable gives on the outside

[Obamot]

Reason why I tell you to take foam!

Uh ... 8m high in some sort of stone formwork? We can't generalize like that! If you have a loft of this height, you already have a draft that can be formed because of the temperature difference between the top and the bottom, but if you add underfloor heating to it, it doesn't there is more this effect in the same way. It is case by case (reason why I asked you for pictures).

A shed ... it's already a bigger volume. So yes, the air isolates, but that is not its function inside construction. It all depends on what you are looking for: for example a better quality of air to breathe!

... so I don't see the connection well! This is not a good example. The proof in department stores, there is sometimes a heated air gap which forms a barrier to prevent cold outside air from mixing with the ambient air inside. It's also 20 or 30cm thick and it works great! Your convection is therefore circumstantial, there the cold air from outside cannot penetrate inside because there is a screen preventing it! When you make a confined compartment, you create a screen. Ditto with double or triple windows ... It all depends on the calorie / frigory load ratio, or even the humidity. In your case, I would fear more humidity ... Than convection!

There or do not get it, is that you concentrate on this point by opposing an argument that does not solve your problem, even though you were thinking of solutions where for once, the effect of a circulation of air would have been much more characteristic - than what you describe - and this with materials which do not enter the class of insulators (ie the glass balls) which proves that you did not have the slightest idea of ​​what what really the function of an insulator like air and how to condition it ... What else ...

In any case, I wish you every success in your resolution of this case.

[Grumly]

are you talking about foam? what packaging is it sold for?

[Rabbit]

For the sand, it is on the 20cm that it will not go; the gable gives on the outside

Sorry I thought I understood that it was about a fireplace
center of the house.

This said, we must avoid wools of any kind because
of a pinion there is always the possibility of water infiltration or
moisture from the maconerie following a driving rain.
The wools have in fact the mower tendency to settle and
to store water, and rodents build their nests there which does not help
not to isolate in addition to the other worries that these animals bring.
Another solution is vermiculite.

[Grumly]

For the sand, it is on the 20cm that it will not go; the gable gives on the outside

Sorry I thought I understood that it was about a fireplace
center of the house.

This said, we must avoid wools of any kind because
of a pinion there is always the possibility of water infiltration or
moisture from the maconerie following a driving rain.
The wools have in fact the mower tendency to settle and
to store water, and rodents build their nests there which does not help
not to isolate in addition to the other worries that these animals bring.
Another solution is vermiculite.

I understand your answer better. A priori I go for a mixed solution: recycling plastic bottles + polystyrene chips made from plate (unless I find better). Because otherwise it will cost me too much. But first I am going to blow up a rock at a height to try to photograph the bottom of the duct to check the condition. From the top we can't see anything.


Otherwise Obamot foam yes it will be effective, but I only know aerosol bombs. If I have to buy hundreds of them .... this solution is not reasonable.

[Obamot]

Not at all! You just have to make two plugs of ~ 30cm thick (or a little more) one at the inlet opening (if necessary make a kind of cardboard formwork, which will limit the progression of the foam to one area given) put what you describe in it (lol, why not tightly closed bottles! I've never tried) and the other cap ditto, of the same thickness at the outlet (or what's left of it).

If as we see in the photo this hose is towards the ceiling, for the rest of the foam, you can also make a kind of well finished cardboard formwork against the duct (right through) at a distance / thickness of the volume of ~ 10cm air - and this, on the "living room" side of course - once done you could squirt the rest of the foam into it by going easy on it, since it easily doubles in volume or boils down to several dozen minutes (half full and see how it behaves ... same method for caps)! Afterwards you can always paint it or put plaster on it (If you know what I mean) So everything will be isolated without risk of condensation due to the natural freshness of the stone ... and you can sleep peacefully!

[Grumly]

In fact, we did not understand each other well, there is no entry hole. Because everything is blocked by a brick wall, and I don't want to break it, I already have no job elsewhere. I can barely blow a rock or two upstairs.

it is not a problem of draft because everything is bricked.

This is the concern. today the only access is that of the father-noel .. at 11m high.

upstairs the wall will be doubled by 7 or 10cm of insulation, except in front of this conduit for lack of space (staircase). So if I managed to fill the conduit with insulation, I would only have a thermal bridge on the sides of the hose.

[Obamot]

Heuuuuh .. First we understand that it is an ordinary fireplace! Then from the photo we have the impression that part of the duct is relatively horizontal! (Masonry wall) Then we learn that it is vertical on 8 meters high and then after 11 meters ... In short, we only understand pouic!



What is the black part with the question mark? Why is it black? Is it open to the inside of the chimney flue? If so, you will have to at least form it with cardboard and put foam in it (you can squirt inside ... then fold down the formwork to close by having put enough foam so that it makes a joint ... ). Or even better to condemn the opening with bricks, above all? Would you like to transform the upper floor into a habitable attic (living room / s?)

Anyway: then complete as below ...

So if it's like the green line (and from the red bricks it goes upwards) you have to use your "ally" which is "Earth's gravity":

1) it suffices to squirt the foam from the top by making it fall by gravity in order to constitute a 30cm foam mat.

2) Then do not fill in right away!

Fill the duct with what you have described (improvisation of expanded polystyrene pellets + empty bottles ... because no one knows what chemical reaction this could generate, under certain conditions ... with closed bottles of different types of "fart" "and a summer sun which would strike and warm your" improvised mixture "... what gas this could release over time ... in short, do as you want if you absolutely want to put something in it, but do it according to standards known !!!).

3) make the formwork as described in my previous post for the top plug ...

4) watch what happens, one or two winters in a row. If everything works without the problems you assume, you will have saved the cost of the poly-thing ...

5) If it does not work well and you notice parts that are too cold (ie damp, mold, unhealthy surrounding air ...) It will always be time to reopen the top stopper with a cutter and fill the duct with this which will please you but respecting the instructions for the material used...

6) Then you can reuse the same cap by sticking it with foam that you squirt into the gap (it sticks back together very, very well ...)

Full success in your insulation and development work!

[Grumly]

Fill the duct with what you have described (improvisation of expanded polystyrene pellets + empty bottles ... because no one knows what chemical reaction this could generate, under certain conditions ... with closed bottles of different types of "fart" "and a summer sun which would strike and warm your" improvised mixture "... what gas this could release over time ... in short, do as you want if you absolutely want to put something in it, but do it according to standards known !!!).

This is precisely the purpose of my post! find a material that is suitable in terms of performance, implementation and price.

Otherwise, yes the attic is in the process of being fitted out, that's why I want to insulate.

The duct is 8m high but starts at the 1st floor, so it ends at 11m high.

the black thing is a second duct, which is in operation and cased.


For now, the cheapest solution is:

Polystyrene (€ 9 for 100l) + bottle (gratos)

then come the 11e20 / 100l vermiculite and which for the moment is 100% suitable for the thing (I found a doc for the insulation of cavity wall / disused duct: http://baoadmin.proxi-business.com/uploads/PDF/30208_fiche_produitvermex_m_.pdf and not too heavy (8kg / 100l)

[Grumly]

implementation for walls or ducts.

http://www.efisol.com/PDF/avis_techniques/vermex_h.pdf