Heat pump with geothermal wall (Géomur)

Heating, insulation, ventilation, VMC, cooling ... short thermal comfort. Insulation, wood energy, heat pumps but also electricity, gas or oil, VMC ... Help in choosing and implementation, problem solving, optimization, tips and tricks ...
laundry
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Registration: 30/07/22, 14:17
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Re: Heat pump with geothermal wall (Géomur)




by laundry » 31/07/22, 20:49

Obamot wrote:To fully understand, it would be well to know:
— implantation? (pictures, plans?)
— altitude? (200m okay)
— the place (Tarn ok, it's already well in the South...)
— the volume of the house, number of floors/s (140 m² okay but distributed how?)
— the environment, is the house leaning against a rock wall (I didn't quite understand the notion of “geothermal walls”)?
— the type of soil and subsoil?
— if there is a basement in this house for that matter?
— what are the walls made of? The load-bearing structures and the roof?
— whether there are habitable attics? Are they exploited?
— the possibility of installing a Canadian well?
— the type of thermal insulation you have? Roof? Walls? ITE or ITI...?

It lacks elements to get an idea.
There may be better than a heat pump, the price of electricity is likely to reach peaks...


I remember the last sentence! We do not know what the price of electricity will be tomorrow.
The house is a ground floor of 140 m², with heated floor, tiles everywhere on a full basement. In the basement, a 25 m² office with two radiators (since the water in the circuit is not very hot). The rest of the basement is not heated but it is half buried.
The house dates from 1985. Brick walls of 20, insulated with rock wool of 10 cm plus brick partition of 5 plus plaster.
Attic with farmhouses, 20 cm of rock wool blown in 1985 plus 20 cm of cellulose wadding blown over in 2005.
1,5 cm briquette ceiling plus plaster. The perimeter of the ceiling has been insulated from the wall with cork.
Tables of French doors and windows with fibraliht plaster to avoid thermal bridges.
Concrete floor slabs, partitions insulated from the ground by tarmac tape. Then 10 cm polystyrene and 8 cm concrete slab with integrated underfloor heating pipes. Plus 3 cm screed and tiling.
French windows and wooden windows, originally small tiles, replaced by double glazing in 2007.
The ground is clayey, a well 9 meters deep was dug a few years ago, it is just clay on the 9 meters with a small thickness of sand at less 6 meters.
With the thermal solar panels the boiler works a little in November/December, on days when the weather is bad and at night. More in January February and from March practically more. Hot water included. But we are 2.
For the Canadian well, it is too complicated and too costly.
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Obamot
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Re: Heat pump with geothermal wall (Géomur)z




by Obamot » 31/07/22, 22:22

I see the problem better and am bothered to answer seniors. As I understand that every investment must count.

I'm not against heat pumps in all cases — it's sometimes THE solution, but they have problems with reliability, noise pollution and, despite everything, electrical consumption... and they must be replaced one day or so. other... We find very tempting offers, but we become disillusioned when at the slightest glitch we realize that the seller has disappeared without leaving an address. And you never know how long the PAC will last... And it's embarrassing when you reach a certain age, because you can't chain investments that are still expensive, one after the other , and end up without heating by default of equipment and a source of energy whose price is soaring...

These houses of 1985, I know them, these thermal insulations of the time “didn't really completely isolate”, you must have realized this since you had made corrections... Have located the thermal bridges and tried to remedy them...

The good news is that your situation is far from hopeless...
If you chose to finish “passivating” your house instead, you wouldn't have to regret it?
From what I understand, part of the work to go in this direction has already been completed (double windows and edges of window panels...) the big advantage of this track is that: “you won't spend on the calories you no longer need to produce...”

The cost and the execution of an “EXTERIOR” thermal insulation (ITE) is ideal when you have a ground...
I don't know what your physical form is, but it's a business that can be done step by step without great difficulty yourself... Or great technical skills. I am thinking of an investment in materials between 5 and 000 €
I think that your “thermal wall” with its cost, would not exempt you from wasting / dispersing the energy produced to the outside...! So much for isolating?

You can even find cheap scaffolding (which you can resell once the work is finished)
from € 129.— to advance in complete safety (CE standard requires)

BB3C7274-6581-4D7A-8D39-234A380F55B4.jpeg
BB3C7274-6581-4D7A-8D39-234A380F55B4.jpeg (432.45 Kio) Consulté 1487 fois


from € 229.— with wheels, to move it easily and safely as the work progresses...
https://www.castorama.fr/echafaudage-ce ... 3_CAFR.prd

8EB9C97A-C3CB-4303-A810-E03ABEC966A2.jpeg
8EB9C97A-C3CB-4303-A810-E03ABEC966A2.jpeg (450.79 Kio) Consulté 1487 fois


Why is it very interesting? Because :
You always have an oil boiler that you can use and that works => zero investment.
At the rate of your current heating expenses, the insulation costs would be amortized in 2 or 3 years... if you count the electricity expense...

In the meantime, you don't spend anything you won't see again (heat pump + electricity)
This would allow you to postpone the date of a possible investment as long as possible while reducing your heating costs even more drastically (all the heat escapes through the walls in your home, as we understand.. .)

Doing these little jobs will provide you with physical activity that will keep you in shape! :D
You will also have the enormous satisfaction of having achieved it day after day...

And in the end, you will judge for yourself, but you may only need a cheap heat pump / inverter / air conditioning, like the one I just got someone for € 300.— on sale (4 year warranty). What you could afford since it would only work at a fifth or a quarter of the capacity (and the electrical consumption) compared to the case where you did not insulate the walls...

Until then... you will be able to see what type of heating it will possibly be appropriate to invest in by seeing the evolution of prices, which is an additional advantage (you already have a fireplace, you could think of a small mass stove at time T, which heats an entire house like yours, well insulated with ITE, with only one log per day...! Even a "vegetable garden" allowing you to cook while heating the house , would it be enough....)

I therefore rather see a combination of ideas or “possibles” in your case, which would start by perfecting / finalizing the thermal insulation, and which would THEN define which solution to adopt (if necessary). Because I repeat that we do not spend the energy that we do not consume. And if not, you have to pay!

Perhaps a small dream of becoming almost self-sufficient in your case...

RTDC.

PS: normally, on old boilers, the heating engineers were able to install any burner on any boiler, as long as the tank was not cracked. And indeed, “simple burners” must be hard to find. The mistake would therefore be to take a new boiler with all the gadgets to become completely “captive”... Watch out for anyone who tells you that, he might tend to shoot your boiler for the benefit of offering you another one. : Twisted:
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yvon38
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Re: Heat pump with geothermal wall (Géomur)




by yvon38 » 26/09/22, 18:16

Hello
What surface area of ​​solar panels do you have /surf.habitable,? generally people put 10% of the living space. Instead of buying a heat pump at 10 euros, you add Solisart thermal panels for this price with buffer tanks and you will further reduce your fuel oil. This will allow you to put only extra fuel. cheap electricity and to transfer the fuel. According to Solisart if you put 000% of living space in panels with a 20l buffer tank, you no longer consume anything extra. that can be a solution. Otherwise are you happy with this system? long do you have it?
Sincerely, Yves.
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laundry
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Re: Heat pump with geothermal wall (Géomur)




by laundry » 26/09/22, 18:38

yvon38 wrote:Hello
What surface area of ​​solar panels do you have /surf.habitable,? generally people put 10% of the living space. Instead of buying a heat pump at 10 euros, you add Solisart thermal panels for this price with buffer tanks and you will further reduce your fuel oil. This will allow you to put only extra fuel. cheap electricity and to transfer the fuel. According to Solisart if you put 000% of living space in panels with a 20l buffer tank, you no longer consume anything extra. that can be a solution. Otherwise are you happy with this system? long do you have it?
Sincerely, Yves.


I have 12 m2 of thermal panels for 140 m2 of living space. I abandoned the idea of ​​the geothermal heat pump. If it was the only heater on a new house, it wouldn't be bad. But in the end I pretty much agree with what you are telling me.
The Solisart system is very good because the heat recovered in the panels is injected directly into the heated floor. There are no losses and the floor has a lot of inertia. I installed this in 2012, at the time there were aids. Now it's over but it works fine. In addition I no longer have a solar water heater that I disconnected.
The Solisart regulation is easily controlled on the PC and it is very reliable. They intervened remotely to update the software and make some adjustments for free.
Thank you for your reply.
Cordially. Michael.
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