erratic temperatures inner probe / outdoor OKOFEN

Heating, insulation, ventilation, VMC, cooling ... short thermal comfort. Insulation, wood energy, heat pumps but also electricity, gas or oil, VMC ... Help in choosing and implementation, problem solving, optimization, tips and tricks ...
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christina86
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by christina86 » 27/04/14, 01:32

Dams38 wrote:l ... the same probe as Did67 in photo.

no it's mine in photo, but did Did the same?

@chaboum, not answered the question: when you have developed the heating curve, did you deactivate the room sensor during this time?
and also: have you tried to disable the probe qqs days to see if you still have cold weather?

(disable the probe = 0 compensation)
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by Chaboum » 27/04/14, 23:17

@ Diams38: yes yes, the regul responds well to the button of the inner probe: test tonight live: actual temperature 19.5. Wheel on the 3e point right to match the reality and I do not touch it anymore !!
- auto: it follows the programming: I read on the regul temp amb: 19.5
- forced march / comfort: I read on the regul temp temp: 18.5
- night mode: I read on the regul temp temp: 19.5
I imagine that these readings are normal: qd I am in comfort, it simulates a lower temperature of 1 degree to heat more. that means that I can not go up to more real 20.5 ?? Ooops, oh yes, it would be possible with the wheel is that ?? but I must not touch it otherwise .... (read above)

and for info: external probe at this time (not too cold, so not too much difference: real: 9.2 °, read on the regul: 11.3 °

Sinon
The KTY11-6 one-component infineon sensor is an 2K thermistor that can be found relatively easily in online retailers in Europe (Farnell or other shipping costs) or in China (utsource). find documentation on Google by typing KTY11-6. A priori it would be sufficient to check the resistance at the terminals of the outdoor probe at a given temperature to see if it shit ... on the other hand it is necessary to turn off the boiler and there is always a risk of making a dumpling .... so I I've never been risky for a few degrees of difference

there on the other hand, it's too technical for me! and if you (who is an expert apparently) say that there is a risk of dumpling, then I do not take it.

@christina86
disable the room sensor ... uhhh .. it seems to me that they had tried. But that's something I do not want to do !!! yes yes, I will react some, it is certainly a question of philosophy, but I do not want to delete this inner probe because:
It's not outside that I live, it's the indoor temperature that I want to be able to decide. Yes some will tell me that it is better to anticipate thanks to the external probe etc etc ...
and precisely:
1- my external sensor is not able to do it since it does not give the real values: the colder it is, the more the gap between the real and its value is big
2- and especially: my house is an old farm, big walls ... and just when he starts to do better outside, it's not that he's better inside !! Example all stupid: it happens frequently when the beautiful days arrive, that outside it makes 22 or 23 °, and if the boiler is stopped and that I am not there to open doors and windows, in I am at 16 or 17. So boiler on the move, if it's hot outside, but nobody (inner probe) tells him that in it is cold ... well it does nothing! If I open my doors, windows and heat returns, there no one to tell him !!
So that it makes -15 ° outside or + 25 °, when there is 17 ° or 18 ° in it is necessary that it reacts in the same way !! Raise the indoor temperature !! and precisely if it is based on the heat of 25 ° outside, it will do nothing, or put plumbers to do it. Do you understand me ??
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by christina86 » 28/04/14, 03:33

chaboum, I have the same kind of house as you (so I understand what you say), nevertheless I do not have this problem, even with indoor sensor off, because I have adjusted my heating curve at the start ... which should not be the case for you (the installer had to do that to you and the room sensor runs constantly behind, where your temperature changes).

I do not have time to re-explain ... (maybe Did?) Heating limits also to check ...

Again, if the curve is well adjusted, we do not care that the probe ext is false, provided that the curve has been set with this external probe there and of course having for the time settings disabled the int probe. !!

I heat my old stone house to 19 ° 24h / 24, I dropped the reduced, I do not consume more well and for a better comfort. I only have heated walls, that explains too.

With inertia our stone houses do not fall to 16-17 when out there it is 22 in the day, but provided that at first they are heated to 19 or 20, it can not lose if it is heated by outside , the loss decreases as the gap is reduced, and when it is 20 and 20 the loss is zero and it's still hot to cold, well I have no time I said, and do not gifted to explain in 5min ...
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by Did67 » 28/04/14, 08:27

christina86 wrote:
no it's mine in photo, but did Did the same?



No, I have the "before" model, which looks like, also with a dial and 5 right / 5 left graduation. But it has only three positions at the level of the remote control ("button") which does not slide, but "tilts" according to 3 positions: up (auto), flat in the middle (stop), down (forcing) ...

I can not "frock" in "lowered" mode
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by Did67 » 28/04/14, 08:33

chaboum wrote:
- auto: it follows the programming: I read on the regul temp amb: 19.5
- forced march / comfort: I read on the regul temp temp: 18.5
- night mode: I read on the regul temp temp: 19.5
I imagine these readings are normal:


Normally, it's the temperature order which responds to the remote command.

The measured temperature does not change instantly.

It seems to me that the regulations use this terminology (see photo of christina above). One is the translation of "soll" ("must be ...") and the other of "ist" ("is ...").

The measured temp ("ist"; "at the moment it is ...") varies constantly, but slowly. If the regulation is correctly adjusted, we vary "around" the temp. instruction ("solle"; "I would like him to do ..."). This depends on the program / priority (for example: 20 ° in comfort period or in "forcing comfort"; for example 17 ° in lowered or "forcing lowered" mode). And it only varies when you change the program or the "forcing" ...

So I did not understand everything! AND not even understood much ...
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by Did67 » 28/04/14, 08:45

chaboum wrote:
qd I am in comfort, it simulates a lower temperature of 1 degree to heat more. that means that I can not go up to more real 20.5 ??



??

Never read anything about Austrian simulations ... !!! ???

I do not think that's what happens normally.

Normally, let's start at the beginning, you come back, in your regulation:

- the days / hours you want the comfort time; it's a order ("I would like that ..."): the regulation seeks to balance around the comfort time
- by differences, the non-programmed periods are "lowered" periods, where the regulation will target the lowered temperature; set temperature too ...
- the temperature set comfort: it is you who decides, so you must progarmmer; for example: 20 ° (or 21 or 19 ...)
- the lowered temperature: eg 17 °

So if you are in comfort period on your program, or if you force on "comfort" (soliel), the time of order comfort; eg 20 °

If you are in "lowered" period according to your program or if you force in lowered mode ("moon"), it should be displayed order lowered; eg 17 °

There is nothing "simulation" here, but square programming.

Another thing is the temperature measured (whether inerrieur / ambiance) or outdoor. They vary. And the system must react to correct and return to the setpoint (for example a half-degree).
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by Did67 » 28/04/14, 08:49

christina86 wrote:
I do not have time to re-explain everything ... (maybe Did?)

.


I repeated dozens and dozens of times. Whoever it interests will find.

And I do not think it's appropriate to explain against the will of the people.

How many people have very precise speed regulators but continue to drive at the "foot", at the risk of being flashed on the first descent on a deserted highway ??? They are going to rail against the radars! The human being is thus made.
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by Chaboum » 28/04/14, 16:49

Thank you Did67, I want to accept that I do not understand anything, (that's why I ask the specialists !!), but I can still read what is written on the regul, between deposit and measured. and I thought I was clear. Apparently not !! I will do it again with photos taken at the moment. because you tell me that:

Normally, this is the [b]setpoint temperature that responds to the remote command [/b].
Yes I suspected it !! and we can see it also on the 3th photo in the forced night mode.

BUT ...
The measured temperature does not change instantly.

gold I read well no ??
- first picture: auto mode, in comfort period: temp measured = 19.5


Image

- second photo: forced comfort mode: temp measured = 18.5
Image

- third picture: forced mode night: temp measured = 20.1
In addition, I correct what you told me about the temp of order:
If you are in a "lowered" period according to your program or if you force in lowered mode ("moon"), the lowered setpoint should be displayed; eg 17 °
Now at my house, as you can see, in temp point it is written 8 °, while my reduced mode is at 18.5 if I remember correctly.
Image

We are NOT talking about the setpoint temperature !!! Better understood there ?? That's why I was talking about "simulation" !! The measured temp sent to the regulator changes depending on the position of the forced button night / forced day / auto. it's not what you read ??

Do you understand better what I said ??
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by manet42 » 28/04/14, 17:53

Ambient setting 8 °, it is when the ambient T ° exceeds the set point + hysteresis: Reduced mode 18 ° 5, it is 20 °, the heating stops is the setpoint becomes 8 °.

As int prob, I have a box identical to the regulator, it works.

JC
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by christina86 » 29/04/14, 02:22

Good evening Chaboum,
ask your installer to check the wiring of your probe, he is there for that ("obligation of result" it's called, isn't it? ... and you've been "dealing with" for years?) ...
because it's odd that the slider causes your regulator to react in the way it normally responds with the wheel (the probe indicates colder if you turn right or warmer by turning left):
see 14 page of the Pelletronic Plus Manual V 2.27M:
In the Measurements / Setpoints menu, the value "T amb mes" does not correspond to the actual measured temperature. It necessarily includes the desired correction by the wheel! This value therefore corresponds to the actual measured temperature in the only case where the wheel points upwards.

Here it is if you do not have it:
https://www.econologie.info/share/partag ... jR6Z5x.pdf
(and I advise you at least the reading of pages 13, 14, 15, concerning the adjustment of the heating curve...) *

If the installer is incompetent / insecure, check yourself (a heck anyway ...) - see p.55-57 of the manual,
or maybe in this one: "wiring and controls ..." https://www.econologie.info/share/partag ... 29o7qK.pdf

If the wiring is correct, then there ... you should expose your case to okofen directly ... info@okofen.fr or 04 79 65 01 71


* PS: looking for the docs, I fell back on it, it can be used to understand also: https://www.econologie.info/share/partag ... bJKmrL.pdf [and whose conclusion - added to the inertia of my house! - also explain why I managed to drop the reduction with my heated walls (halfway between PC and radiators)]


And I try one last time:
zarbie probe or not, the correct setting of your curve is a prerequisite for a better comfort ...
You come for advice, right? so try at least what they tell you, do not get tired for nothing ...
You just have to fumble a few days (and possibly adjust in very cold weather), but you will see that after you have less need to intervene constantly via the room sensor - maybe even like me you will leave it off, so that it works well (and maybe the discount is also not a good deal at home) ...
Read the doc and try to understand the principle, you will see that the offset (if constant! **) of your external probe is not serious - if you adjust the curve in relation to her and your house .. .
(Do not forget to switch the Ambient Sensor Compensation to 0 during this time, otherwise you will never find it!)

** one day mine has been falling for an hour, it was 30 ° less than actually ...

Image
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