Creating a central heating with wall heating

Heating, insulation, ventilation, VMC, cooling ... short thermal comfort. Insulation, wood energy, heat pumps but also electricity, gas or oil, VMC ... Help in choosing and implementation, problem solving, optimization, tips and tricks ...
Loki91
I discovered econologic
I discovered econologic
posts: 8
Registration: 25/11/09, 23:57

Creating a central heating with wall heating




by Loki91 » 25/11/09, 23:59

Hello everybody

I am the proud owner of a new house near Fontainebleau built this year.

I have been heating for 2-3 weeks: air / air heat pump with splits in all rooms and wood stove in living room / living room / open kitchen
If I am generally satisfied with it (no feeling of draft, very fast heating rate ...), there are 2 less pleasant points:

1/
The noise in operation which, if it goes unnoticed during the day, can be heard at night (and it's very quiet here at night)

2/
Not the feeling of well-being provided by thermal radiation

So I plan to mount a central heating with a wood water insert (a Kratki which will be installed in place of my Invicta) and heated walls in order to combine the advantages of the 2 modes.

If I have gone around the question with regard to the production of heat, I have a few questions about the implementation of heated walls:

1/
Is it possible to lay multilayer or polybutylene pipes on an exterior wall insulated with placomur? On a plasterboard partition?

2/
Regarding the plaster, according to different sites it seems that the best is a mixture of earth and fibers. But are there alternatives to overpriced products distributed by AKTERRE or others? Are concrete or plaster good alternatives?

Thank you for your answers
0 x
User avatar
minguinhirigue
Éconologue good!
Éconologue good!
posts: 447
Registration: 01/05/08, 21:30
Location: Strasbourg
x 1




by minguinhirigue » 26/11/09, 00:14

Hello,

normally a heating wall is rather on an insulated wall from the outside. Plasterboard is not great ...

For alternatives, concrete is possible, it has good thermal inertia, but you will have difficulty pouring it or spraying it on a hydrophyle wall (plaster).

Plaster is not recommended, due to its low thermal inertia (compare to concrete or earth).

The earth and earth-straw walls are really adequate for this type of work. But it's up to you.

For the prices, quality land can be found elsewhere than at Arkterre, even if they offer complete construction systems (less personal research ...). Look in your area for clay suppliers, brickyards, etc.
0 x
Loki91
I discovered econologic
I discovered econologic
posts: 8
Registration: 25/11/09, 23:57




by Loki91 » 26/11/09, 07:40

minguinhirigue wrote:Hello,

normally a heating wall is rather on an insulated wall from the outside. Plasterboard is not great ...


Hi and thanks for the quick response,

I would like to keep my interior insulation in plasterboard but I will not coat it with earth or concrete without having previously waterproofed it. I was thinking of using a product intended to prepare the plasterboard before laying tiles in the showers.
Would that solve the problem?
I imagined if not to mount a cellular concrete lining in contact with the plasterboard.

I'm going to study the brickyard track (you will tell me that there is a lot of clay soil in my house :P) otherwise it will be a cement plaster.
0 x
the middle
Econologue expert
Econologue expert
posts: 4075
Registration: 12/01/07, 08:18
x 4




by the middle » 26/11/09, 07:54

Hello Loki,
Don't forget that your house is new, and that the heating has been running for a short time.
It may be that the humidity is too high, which causes a feeling of discomfort.
So I would advise you to wait a few months for the walls to dry.
But for the noise ... there ... :?
0 x
Aumicron
Éconologue good!
Éconologue good!
posts: 387
Registration: 16/09/09, 16:43
Location: Bordeaux




by Aumicron » 26/11/09, 10:51

Hello Loki91,

Good idea the heating wall. Below 2 links of experiences of self-builders that may interest you:

http://amet.pierre.free.fr/yvesgern/Mur ... ntsWeb.htm

http://amet.pierre.free.fr/beaujard/beaujard.html

Good luck.
0 x
To argue.
Loki91
I discovered econologic
I discovered econologic
posts: 8
Registration: 25/11/09, 23:57




by Loki91 » 26/11/09, 14:20

lejustemilieu wrote:Hello Loki,
Don't forget that your house is new, and that the heating has been running for a short time.
It may be that the humidity is too high, which causes a feeling of discomfort.
So I would advise you to wait a few months for the walls to dry.
But for the noise ... there ... :?


Hello,

I do not think that humidity is still important because the house was delivered to us in January and we have lived in it since mid-June as soon as we finished the work.
It is not really a feeling of discomfort. The purpose of installing this central heating is twofold:

- develop wood energy because we have it for a low price. The stove we have works very well but the distribution of heat, in view of the area of ​​the house, is obviously not at all homogeneous ... hence the idea of ​​the Kratki Zuzia 19.
It will allow us to lower our electricity consumption when temperatures are low and to be a little more in line with ecology.

- although the splits perfectly fulfill their role, the heat they produce does not offer the same feeling as a thermal mass. Hence the idea of ​​playing on two tables: splits to finely manage the temperature, or very quickly heat the rooms and radiant heating for even more comfort.

Not to mention the possibility of cooling the house in summer during a major heat wave (I know I was talking about ecology but putting a baby in a room at 30 ° C because we forgot to close the shutters for example, it is sport ...)


Aumicron wrote:Hello Loki91,

Good idea the heating wall. Below 2 links of experiences of self-builders that may interest you:

http://amet.pierre.free.fr/yvesgern/Mur ... ntsWeb.htm

http://amet.pierre.free.fr/beaujard/beaujard.html


Hello,

Many thanks for the very interesting links!

I think of being inspired by it and doing the same thing directly on the waterproofed placomur (product previously quoted) which ensures the insulation by the interior of my pinion.
So in order:
1- installation and fixing of the pexalu coil
2- install machined cleats on this wall
3- installation of a water-repellent BA13 height
4- pouring the plaster (on the other hand I will not use plaster which does not seem to be fabulous but either earth or more probably a cement plaster with fast setting).

Didn't I forget a trap?
0 x
aerialcastor
Grand Econologue
Grand Econologue
posts: 865
Registration: 10/05/09, 16:39
x 21




by aerialcastor » 26/11/09, 17:23

Hello,

It would be more interesting if technically possible to make the heating wall on a partition rather than on an exterior wall to avoid the increase in losses, due to the increase in the temperature difference inside surface / outside surface temp.

The thickness of the coating or even the composition thereof must be chosen depending on the inertia that is desired of the system. A thick and heavy coating will heat more slowly but will also cool more slowly, while a thinner and lighter coating will allow greater reactivity.

You have to be super careful (well, it seems good to me : Cheesy: ) at low points which could "trap" an air bubble.
0 x
Loki91
I discovered econologic
I discovered econologic
posts: 8
Registration: 25/11/09, 23:57




by Loki91 » 26/11/09, 21:16

I am skimming the net to calculate the thickness of the walls to be expected.
Verdict: apart from the endless advice "consult a thermal engineer" not much new :|

However, I found advice to improve the technique of plasterboard formwork:

-use of armed BA15
-use of a cement mortar with aggregate sizes of all sizes ranging from fine sand to coarse pebble
-the use of a metal frame further improves the thermal conductivity.
0 x
User avatar
Obamot
Econologue expert
Econologue expert
posts: 28725
Registration: 22/08/09, 22:38
Location: regio genevesis
x 5538




by Obamot » 26/11/09, 22:58

minguinhirigue wrote:normally a heating wall is rather on an insulated wall from the outside. The plasterboard is not great.


Idem.

See several options and compare the implementation costs, because this is an adventure that is likely to be expensive.

- The plasterboard is not really a “thermal insulator” (see the performances on the comparative table of different materials).
- The thermal conductivity in the walls, it is better to avoid => because heat conductivity towards the outside too. Difficult to avoid if the house was not designed for it from the start ...
0 x
Loki91
I discovered econologic
I discovered econologic
posts: 8
Registration: 25/11/09, 23:57




by Loki91 » 26/11/09, 23:11

Obamot wrote:
minguinhirigue wrote:normally a heating wall is rather on an insulated wall from the outside. The plasterboard is not great.


Idem.

See several options and compare the implementation costs, because this is an adventure that is likely to be expensive.

- The plasterboard is not really a “thermal insulator” (see the performances on the comparative table of different materials).
- The thermal conductivity in the walls, it is better to avoid => because heat conductivity towards the outside too. Difficult to avoid if the house was not designed for it from the start ...


In fact, I was thinking of installing the heating pipes on a plasterboard partition or, in the case of an exterior wall, first mount a cellular concrete lining against the plasterboard insulation (with an air gap between the 2 ) and install the pipes.

What do you think ?
0 x

 


  • Similar topics
    Replies
    views
    Last message

Back to "Heating, insulation, ventilation, VMC, cooling ..."

Who is online ?

Users browsing this forum : No registered users and 374 guests