COP to 5 7 to-Air Heat Pump Air inside monobloc

Heating, insulation, ventilation, VMC, cooling ... short thermal comfort. Insulation, wood energy, heat pumps but also electricity, gas or oil, VMC ... Help in choosing and implementation, problem solving, optimization, tips and tricks ...
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I Citro
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by I Citro » 18/11/11, 23:47

If I understood correctly, Hic wants to pump the air from his house to compress it.
Thus, he thinks of creating heat, that created by the work of compression.

Imagine that his house is airtight, the air at ambient pressure which enters his pump occupies in the pump an overall volume less than the number of bars of pressure of his pump. Either he stores this compressed air and his house deflates, or he replaces the compressed air with fresh AND COLD air coming from the outside, or he rejects in his house what he has compressed to make the heat. So, the compressed and hot air will relax, pump the ambient calories (cool down), like any air conditioning, so back to square one ... We will just have had the pleasure of spending energy , in vain.
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by Christophe » 19/11/11, 00:29

I move the subject to "humor" where we wait a little longer? : Idea: :?: : Lol:
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hic
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by hic » 19/11/11, 04:15

citro wrote:If I understood correctly, Hic wants to pump the air from his house to compress it.
Thus, he thinks of creating heat, that created by the work of compression.

Imagine that his house is airtight, the air at ambient pressure which enters his pump occupies in the pump an overall volume less than the number of bars of pressure of his pump. Either he stores this compressed air and his house deflates, or he replaces the compressed air with fresh AND COLD air coming from the outside, or he rejects in his house what he has compressed to make the heat. So, the compressed and hot air will relax, pump the ambient calories (cool down), like any air conditioning, so back to square one ... We will just have had the pleasure of spending energy , in vain.
:?

Hi citro

yeah!
the system is reversible

so explain to me?
why we can cool in summer by throwing hot air outside

and that we could not heat by throwing cold air outside



it's time to let the big theory go
against the concept of temperature rise

you gain reality
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by dirk pitt » 19/11/11, 07:16

@hic,
I believe that before going further, you should search the net for explanations (perhaps clearer than those of the members of the forum, including me) on the operation of the heat pump that you obviously did not understand.
it will save you from going down this dead end.
I say that for you, because there, it seems to me that you start to make fun.
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by Christophe » 19/11/11, 08:28

Hic wrote:why we can cool in summer by throwing hot air outside

and that we could not heat by throwing cold air outside


Well done, you just re-invented reversible air conditioning !! : Cheesy: : Cheesy:
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by Did67 » 19/11/11, 11:36

Hic wrote:
there is no "outside T °" nor "outside delta" !!!!!!

since we compress air inside
(cold air being rejected outside)




Little cap lesson, to stop delusional. Sorry.

It is not the air that is compressed in a heat pump, neither inside nor outside. It is a fluid (formerly the famous freon) which turns in circles, inside the circuits (coils), sometimes in the liquid state, sometimes in the gaseous state. We must not let it escape from elsewhere! (compulsory checks). Air cannot be a PAC fluid, it liquefies far too difficult. Liquid air is produced and distilled in factories at very high pressure and very very low temperatures (for the production of gas: hospital oxygen, etc.).

1) Let's start from the fluid in the gaseous state, you compress it (with an electric motor which actuates a compressor - the characteristic little noise of refrigerators - which consumes electricity), it liquefies in coils, releasing heat that heats the air around these coils. It is the condenser, which "heats" therefore. If there is no heat release, it does not liquefy!

2) This liquid, you send it to other coils, where it evaporates, it produces cold which it stings in the air which surrounds these coils. It is the evaporator, which therefore cools [with sometimes other effects: frost, etc.].

It does not evaporate if there is no warming.

3) You put the evaporator in a room, and the condenser outside: you have a cold room. Your system "stings" calories inside to reject them outside ... You "exchange" your electricity for cold.

Ditto for a fridge or freezer. In this case, the evaporator is inside the insulated trunk and the condenser the grille at the rear (chuade). (By the way: fridge and freezer are therefore also heaters for the rooms in which they are located! Even in summer !!)

4) You put the evaporator outside and the condenser inside and you have an air / air heat pump. It stings calories outside and heats up inside. You trade electricity for calories. The COP measures the ratio between the energy consumed by the electric motor and the "useful" calories - heating - released by the condenser. The COP decreases as the difference between the interior and exterior temp increases (temperatures not of the fluid, but temp of the source in which this fluid "stings" or "rejects" the caories)

4bis) You can even have a system that turns one way in winter and the other way in summer and you have a reversible air conditioning!

5) You put the evaporator and the condenser in a single room: one stings the calories that the other releases, the calories "go round in circles", it neither heats nor cools.

Except that the electricity consumed by the motor is released as heat. You have in fact a "pseudo-convector" whose calorific power is exactly equal to the power consumed by the motor. COP = 1.

If I understood correctly, that is what you are considering. So I can give you the COP: it's 1! Whether the machine is a little, not at all or very sophisticated!

5) Very easy experience, if you don't follow me: you empty your fridge, you open the door and you plug in. You will see that: a) it runs continuously (unless the engine overheats; a bimetallic strip then protects and cuts it); b) heats very very little ... and c) consumes a lot of electricity. COP = 1.
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by dedeleco » 19/11/11, 11:55

Finally Hic, the super-shadok worse than the shadoks, managed to display an armada of heat pump advertisements on econology, scams that have been effective in pumping my money, with devices to change after 3 years, with prohibited and irreparable fluid !!

Scams also at € 30000 for false geothermal heat pumps (this is actually the heat of the sun averaged over a year which diffuses into the earth, but not that of the deep geological earth, as we try to make believe), with a CAP, which only worked 5 days, with friends of my family, the time they pay the company which went bankrupt right after, and therefore New heat pump out of service paid 30000 € !!

Hic is gifted to display a lot of scam ads on econology !!!
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Re: COP from 5 to 7 for internal air-to-air heat pump

by Did67 » 19/11/11, 11:58

Hic wrote:
In an empty apartment
- 1985 insulation, without heat exchanger,
the temperature never drops below 9 °
(Would not the apartment serve as a Canadian well?)



Second problem [well, it's easy, I recognize!] In your reasoning:

- the apartment maintains 9 ° only because it "stings" the calories in the surrounding apartment heated to 20 °.

Experiment: measure the temperature of an apartment in an entirely empty building but still glazed: it will be close to the outside temp (even if the walls slightly "smooth" the daily variations; the temp will in fact be close to the average outside temp) .

Why do you think it is necessary to put houses and buildings "frost-free"? There is no "natural" hold at 9 °! It's just that surrounded by buildings where we maintain 20 °, with poorly insulated partitions, the calories go from the hottest (neighbor's apartment) to the coldest (your apartment). Heating (well, keeping it at 9 °), it's the neighbors who pay for it!

- it has nothing to do with a Canadian well which "stings" the calories in the deep layers of the soil, where the temperature is more or less constant ...

- to be rigorous, it is also "stung" energy, but under the sun : the sun warms the ground surface; part of this heat descends slowly, very slowly into the deep layers ... In winter, it rises slowly, very very slowly towards the surface. In our climates, equilibrium is established around 12 ° to 3 meters deep. The mass of earth constitutes an enormous reserve, in which the well stings a few calories ...

- experience: installs a Canadian well in ... Siberia. You dig the permafrost and you recover air at .... 0 ° c!
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by Did67 » 19/11/11, 12:02

dedeleco wrote:
Hic is gifted to display a lot of scam ads on econology !!!


I just thought he had serious shortcomings in thermodynamics - or just some basic principles in physics ...

Maybe a little too smoky of substances that make say "creative"?

Hence my effort to explain to him!

If it is to advertise PAC, here I am! [you understood me, dedéléco, I do not pronounce the word which so often disagrees with us!]
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hic
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by hic » 19/11/11, 15:22

Christophe wrote:
Hic wrote:why we can cool in summer by throwing hot air outside

and that we could not heat by throwing cold air outside


Well done, you just re-invented reversible air conditioning !! : Cheesy: : Cheesy:


hi Christophe

with this remark,
you just admitted that the system works
and that you understand it!

(an interior compressor can heat and cool slightly)

whereas before you said the opposite


So what are you saying, exactly!
it works or it doesn't work ???????????
you should know what you're saying


we cannot deny the reality of this system which is on sale,
long made by many well-known brands;
it is unthinkable!

This streak has fallen into Holocaust denial. . . momentarily!
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"Let food be thy medicine and thy medicine be thy food" Hippocrates
"Everything has a price has no value" Nietzche
Torture for Dummies
Forbid to express the idea that the field is acceleration (magnetic and gravitational)
And you get your patent mental torture option executioner successfully

 


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