Abnormal Consumption Standby Multisplit Mitsubishi Mxz Air Conditioner

Heating, insulation, ventilation, VMC, cooling ... short thermal comfort. Insulation, wood energy, heat pumps but also electricity, gas or oil, VMC ... Help in choosing and implementation, problem solving, optimization, tips and tricks ...
User avatar
PITMIX
Pantone engine Researcher
Pantone engine Researcher
posts: 2028
Registration: 17/09/05, 10:29
x 17




by PITMIX » 30/04/13, 08:38

Hello
I would like to know if, in your opinion, there is a risk in installing an automatic device which cuts off the power supply to the electronic card of my air conditioning. Doesn't that damage the electronics? I am thinking of a time relay which would cut the power supply after 5min of standby eg.
0 x
Christophe
Moderator
Moderator
posts: 79127
Registration: 10/02/03, 14:06
Location: Greenhouse planet
x 10975




by Christophe » 30/04/13, 10:08

I do not see why it would deteriorate if it is on standby (it is the sudden stop which is not good).

On the other hand you have to do an internal looping (on the compressor control?) If you don't want to have to re-ignite "by hand" ... because the time relay will cut everything ...

In short, you have to let light part of the internal regulation that would control this relay (tempo or not) ... it remains to be seen if the game is worth the candle, by analyzing the consumptions that can be saved ... if there remains 100W of consumption in eve, I would not do it!

Otherwise there is more than the solution of the circuit breaker to type ... you can possibly wire the air conditioning on a wall outlet more apparent and more "smart" ... I think that is what I would do in your place ...
0 x
Alain G
Econologue expert
Econologue expert
posts: 3044
Registration: 03/10/08, 04:24
x 3




by Alain G » 30/04/13, 14:11

Hello!

You have to see if the start timer (to lower the gas pressure) is on the thermostat or in the appliance, if it is in the thermostat you can directly control a contactor which will supply the air conditioning and quite simply and connect the input from the thermostat control which usually has 2 wires or 3 wires if it is reversible, there may also be wires to supply the thermostat, if necessary you can replace this thermostat with a commercial one such as a powered Honeywell by battery.
0 x
Stepping behind sometimes can strengthen friendship.
Criticism is good if added to some compliments.
Alain
User avatar
PITMIX
Pantone engine Researcher
Pantone engine Researcher
posts: 2028
Registration: 17/09/05, 10:29
x 17




by PITMIX » 30/04/13, 16:01

In fact I was thinking of two solutions. Or the simple one by placing a relay controlled by a wireless switch, which would cut the power supply just under the circuit breaker. Either a time relay or not which would cut off the electronic card which eats too much juice inside the group. The second solution would avoid pressing the switch each time by recovering the 3rd wire from the indoor unit control. I was thinking about the tempo so that my compressor is time to slow down when the thermostat cuts in regulation. For example if the thermostat cuts for 5 minutes, the relay cuts the juice after transformer.
0 x
User avatar
PITMIX
Pantone engine Researcher
Pantone engine Researcher
posts: 2028
Registration: 17/09/05, 10:29
x 17




by PITMIX » 01/05/13, 12:36

Here are some pictures to liven it up.
I found the electrical diagram under the hood of the outdoor unit.
I took the measurements again and that confirms that I should cut the juice directly under the circuit breaker with a simple remote-controlled switch. The circuit breaker being in my garage it will avoid pulling a cable between the house and the garage.

Here is the complete electrical diagram:

https://www.econologie.info/share/partag ... LYxJiB.JPG

Current measurement at the input of the Noise Filter PC board :

Image

Current measurement at the input of the power board card:

Image

Current measurement on one of the compressor supply cables:

Image

Measurement with the transformer and the power board disconnected:

Image
0 x
Alain G
Econologue expert
Econologue expert
posts: 3044
Registration: 03/10/08, 04:24
x 3




by Alain G » 01/05/13, 13:31

Hello Pitmix!

Well after some research on your device it seems that the heating element at the base of your compressor is powered by a high frequency chopper which deceives your ammeter intended for 50 hz and the real consumption is between 10 to 15 watts and the consumption of the resistance according to the need for heating the oil in the compressor, in summer it would be closer to 10 to 15 watts.



Here is the consumption test on the external meter was carried out and it is absolutely not in relation to the consumption indicated by the Legrand wattmeter.
Indeed, the rotation of the wheel returns a consumption for the 3 external groups (8 outputs in all) of 50 W / h in standby which makes a consumption of 1,2 kW / day, which is quite normal, this makes approximately one consumption per group of 15 W / h in standby.
It remains for me to understand why the Legrand wattmeter returns an incorrect value.
0 x
Stepping behind sometimes can strengthen friendship.

Criticism is good if added to some compliments.

Alain
User avatar
PITMIX
Pantone engine Researcher
Pantone engine Researcher
posts: 2028
Registration: 17/09/05, 10:29
x 17




by PITMIX » 01/05/13, 13:59

Thank you for your help Alain G, I also read something similar but concerning the switching power supplies which would cause a harmonic distorting the measurement with the ammeter clamp.
I did not find any crankcase resistance and on the diagram there is none.
Ammeter measurements seem to show that it is the Noise Filter that consumes a max.
I'll unplug whatever comes out on this card to be sure, but I think Mitsu's answer is unfortunately true.

That said, I would have to see if my meter really records the consumption.
It seems that to know the true measurement it is necessary to test with a really ammeter mounted in series.
0 x
Alain G
Econologue expert
Econologue expert
posts: 3044
Registration: 03/10/08, 04:24
x 3




by Alain G » 01/05/13, 15:19

PITMIX wrote:Thank you for your help Alain G, I also read something similar but concerning the switching power supplies which would cause a harmonic distorting the measurement with the ammeter clamp.
I did not find any crankcase resistance and on the diagram there is none.
Ammeter measurements seem to show that it is the Noise Filter that consumes a max.
I'll unplug whatever comes out on this card to be sure, but I think Mitsu's answer is unfortunately true.

That said, I would have to see if my meter really records the consumption.
It seems that to know the true measurement it is necessary to test with a really ammeter mounted in series.



Hello!

If the parasite filter which is a simple capacitor without polarity consumed so much it should overheat and explode given the size of the gadget, ditto for excessive consumption of the electronic card which should give off heat and that does not seem the case because I believe that you would have reported.

There is nothing better than a good old needle ammeter typed in series with the mains to have a more precise reading of the real consumption because inexpensive electronic multimeters are often a source of overunit in many mounting cases than the we see on the net unfortunately fessing many people wrongly dreaming!
0 x
Stepping behind sometimes can strengthen friendship.

Criticism is good if added to some compliments.

Alain
User avatar
PITMIX
Pantone engine Researcher
Pantone engine Researcher
posts: 2028
Registration: 17/09/05, 10:29
x 17




by PITMIX » 01/05/13, 15:23

This time there is no doubt it is the Noise Filter.
I just left the phase and the neutral connected to this card and I have 0.7A of consumed. : Evil:
If I understand correctly this card is just an anti-parasite filter!
There is a ferrite on the power cable and coils as well as a small transformer on the board.
I do not understand anything !! ??

Yes I have to find a real ammeter like at school : Lol:
0 x
User avatar
PITMIX
Pantone engine Researcher
Pantone engine Researcher
posts: 2028
Registration: 17/09/05, 10:29
x 17




by PITMIX » 05/05/13, 09:11

I do not have a device to measure the cos phi however I have made a verification of the Edf meter.


Disc time to complete a revolution on the counter:

225w house on standby + air conditioning disjontée = 1tr / 1min8sec

338w idem + 1tv = 1tr / 24,94sec

480w ditto + 2 tv = 1tr / 17,40sec

538w 1tv on + air conditioning on standby = 1tr / 24,66sec

I suppose that in the last condition if the 200w were counted I will have measured a time of 10 to 15 sec.

I think it confirms a degradation of cos phi.
0 x

 


  • Similar topics
    Replies
    views
    Last message

Back to "Heating, insulation, ventilation, VMC, cooling ..."

Who is online ?

Users browsing this forum : No registered users and 383 guests