3 or 4-way valve regulation adjustment Centratherm ZG 254 for heated floors?

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3 or 4-way valve regulation adjustment Centratherm ZG 254 for heated floors?




by Christophe » 19/11/07, 12:39

I'm struggling "a little" to understand the operation of the regulation of our heated floors which controls the motorized valve (3 or 4 ways).

From what I understood it obviously depends on the T ° of the fluid, the outside T ° (the 2 sensors are still in place but are they still working?) But also other settings. Indeed, on our regulation there are 4 adjustment "coefficients" to adjust and this is where I am lost.

Obviously there are no more instructions ...

I am enclosing an image that I have just taken if it can help connoisseurs.

My question mainly concerns the adjustment of the coefficients P1, A, B and C ... kézako ??

Image

Edit: answer, here is a doc in French https://www.econologie.com/fichiers/par ... 3eIEqL.pdf
Last edited by Christophe the 21 / 10 / 08, 07: 32, 2 edited once.
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by Christophe » 19/11/07, 12:41

Apparently I had searched poorly, here are 2 instructions for use and assembly:

https://www.econologie.info/share/partag ... luMou4.pdf
https://www.econologie.info/share/partag ... NR0djs.pdf

Apparently it was bought by honeywell ...

ps: the TIMER part is completely out of order (electronic card "cut" in 2).
Last edited by Christophe the 20 / 10 / 08, 18: 25, 1 edited once.
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by Christophe » 19/11/07, 13:00

I looked at the 2nd doc, here is what I understood about the coef. :

A = temperature curve, depends on the configuration of the house (this is our biggest unknown). The higher it is, the more quickly it heats up apparently? Default value: 1.6. I'm going to set it to 0.8 in our case and go back up if that's not enough.

B = room temperature setting, this is the delta relative to 20 ° C. If you want 18 ° C you have to put -2, if you want 22 you have to put +2.

C = setting of the night temperature with respect to 20 ° C. If you want 14 ° C at night, put -6.

P1 = T ° sensor sensitivity, default setting recommended at 10 and if it is ever too unstable, the value must be raised ... I will therefore set to 10 to "see"

There is more than "to wait" ...
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Re: Adjusting a heating floor regulation?




by jean63 » 19/11/07, 14:51

Christophe wrote:I'm struggling "a little" to understand the operation of the regulation of our heated floors which controls the motorized valve (3 or 4 ways).

Obviously there are no more instructions ...

I am attaching a picture I just took if it can help connoisseurs.).
Image

It is not the same case as mine (veltatherm / AEG).
The clock part is identical.
On this subject, I see that you have 2 programmed temperature reductions (one from 21 p.m. to 8 a.m. and the other from 12 to 17 p.m.).
This programming only works if your regul is operational, which is not the case with you, since your regul no longer works.
is this clock running?
From what I understood it obviously depends on the T ° of the fluid, the outside T ° (the 2 sensors are still in place but are they still working?) But also other settings. Indeed, on our regulation there are 4 adjustment "coefficients" to adjust and this is where I am lost.

The sensors can work very well but if your regul is HS it is useless.

When mine broke down a few years ago, I managed to get it repaired for 1000 Francs (150 euros) but I spent 2 winters without regul.
New there was for 8000 francs in the 90s because it was necessary to change the sensors of t ° C ext, of hot start to PC and that of t ° C return PC.

Here is what I was doing: depending on the outside temperature, I manually set the opening of the 3-way valve by looking at the heating floor flow temperature and the interior living room / kitchen temperature (no partition).

The only solution for the moment for you is to disconnect the motor that controls the 3-way valve and control it by hand. If you don't have a PC flow and return t ° C indicator on your pipes, you have to put some.

At home, in very cold weather (0 ° to -10 ° c), the starting temp is around 30 ° C and the return at around 25 ° C, but if you have more inertia in your slab (4 to 6 h to heat ald 2 hours at home) is that your pipes are less dense or deeper.

The greater the inertia, the less interesting it is to lower the temperature too much.

Does the solenoid valve motor work? Does your 3-way valve close when the outside t ° C increases like today?

Here outside temp = 11 ° C => my 3-way valve is practically closed, the heat stored in the slab turns in a loop at 23 ° C and it is 22 ° C in the house, this is due to the sudden rise in the temp ext last night and the slab's inertia)?
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by jean63 » 19/11/07, 15:18

Christophe wrote:I looked at the 2nd doc, here is what I understood about the coef. :

A = temperature curve, depends on the configuration of the house (this is our biggest unknown). The higher it is, the more quickly it heats up apparently? Default value: 1.6. I'm going to set it to 0.8 in our case and go back up if that's not enough.

B = room temperature setting, this is the delta relative to 20 ° C. If you want 18 ° C you have to put -2, if you want 22 you have to put +2.

C = setting of the night temperature with respect to 20 ° C. If you want 14 ° C at night, put -6.

P1 = T ° sensor sensitivity, default setting recommended at 10 and if it is ever too unstable, the value must be raised ... I will therefore set to 10 to "see"

There is more than "to wait" ...


AT - The curve is on 0,4 at home (low slope because good insulation and high density of pipes in the slab especially near the windows), but it depends on the inertia of your slab and the insulation of your house. It's up to you to find the right slope by monitoring the evolution of your outdoor temperature and indoor temperature.

B - It's not 20 ° C, it depends on your programmed slope. It is the number of degrees less compared to the temperature during the "day" period of your clock (between the red and blue stopper), but as the timer does not work ... it is useless !!

On my controller, there is a rotary cursor with a "clock" position, a "day" position, a "night" position, a "up" position (valve opening) and a "down" (valve closing).

There is also like yours a temp corrector for the day and one for the night, I have set to "0" (day) and "-8" (night) and the clock goes to night at 22h and during the day at 5 a.m., but I'll be back at 21 p.m. / 6 a.m.

In your case, I will program a slope (A), then I will put the cursor (B) on 0 (zero) ..... and then that's it.

And there you observe what is happening ...

To check if your solenoid valve works:

1 - increases the slope (A)

2 - gradually increases the degrees in + on (B)

=> the 3-way valve must open and conversely it must close, otherwise:

- either the engine is HS (to be tested before anything else).
- either the transmission of the info (sending of the "juice") is not done from the control box.

There is only a temporary solution : adjust the opening of the 3-way valve "by hand" by monitoring the 3 temperatures mentioned in my 1st post. In my case, I closed the van a little in the evening and I reopened it in the morning (+ or - depending on the outside temp), but this is "by judgment" and only the int temp can guide you.

I hope I have been clear enough : Mrgreen:
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by Christophe » 29/11/07, 21:30

Thank you Jean for these very interesting details :)

2 details:

1) The regulation works it is the clock which is HS (connection plate broken in 2 but I will weld it again it is 4 sunt to put).

2) The EV engine works but seems to vary more depending on the T ° of the fluid than the external sensor ... but it is that an impression I can be wrong.

3) For A you propose to take what value for a first try? By default it is marked 0.6 in the notice above but it is not the same value range ...

Pfff in addition I have the Deom to "maneuver" now! Soon I will buy myself a sonar for the sound environment

: Cheesy:
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by jean63 » 30/11/07, 18:16

3) For A you propose to take what value for a first try? By default it is marked 0.6 in the notice above but it is not the same value range ...

Pfff in addition I have the Deom to "maneuver" now! Soon I will buy myself a sonar for the sound environment

yes 0.6 ..... must try it's good for my PC it's ok ..... we see if it's OK especially when the temperature drops a lot outside for + several days (-5 to -10 ° C).

Why a sonar? to know when to recharge your Deom or for traffic noise? not understood......
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by Christophe » 30/11/07, 18:20

Yes I put on 0.6 we will be fine.

For the sonar it was humor, just for the "noise" :D
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heating floor slope adjustment




by momotopo » 09/01/08, 22:12

the formula for calculating a slope is as follows:

(maximum flow temperature - ambient temperature) / (ambient temperature - external reference temperature)

example:

maximum start temperature: 45 °
t ° amb: 20 °
t ° ext ref: -10 °

the slope is (45 - 20) / (20 - (- 10)) =

25/30 = 0.83.

To be adapted, the formula is still valid.

Between us your regul knew grandmother : Cheesy:
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Re: heating floor slope adjustment




by jean63 » 09/01/08, 23:59

momotopo wrote:the formula for calculating a slope is as follows:

(maximum flow temperature - ambient temperature) / (ambient temperature - external reference temperature)

example:

maximum start temperature: 45 °
t ° amb: 20 °
t ° ext ref: -10 °

the slope is (45 - 20) / (20 - (- 10)) =

25/30 = 0.83.

To be adapted, the formula is still valid.

Between us your regul knew grandmother : Cheesy:

Thanks for the formula.

In maximum departure I have 35 °, T ° amb 20 ° and my slope is on 0,4 (and not 0,6) .. I just checked.

In fact I have an ext sensor, a send to PC and a PC return but no room sensor.

With the slope of 0.4 I am at the start = 30 °, return = 25 °, ext = 3 ° C and the ambient temp is 20 °.

Is there a formula with return temp and no ambient temp?
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