Wood boiler: new ECS installation diagram and PCs

[jean63]

It's a big-bag! how do you transport it have them delivered to your home?

Just for information, I just estimated the mass of a big bag at 370 kg.

How did you do ? you weighed a few briquettes and averaged ...... and then you counted the briquettes?

I did not follow all your calculations ..... what do you want to demonstrate apart from the gaps? What is the price difference between the 2?

What size of pellet? and a briquette?

The composition of the pellet and the briquette are the same?

A small energy-equivalent price comparison:

1T = 1000 kgs of pellets = 500 liters of fuel oil = 500 m3 of gas

1 - Pellets = $200 / T

2 - oil = 0,70 euros / liter? (not sure)
............ where => 500 l fuel oil = $350

3 - Gas : 0,40 euros / m3 approximately, hence 1000 m3 = 400 euros
............ where => 500 m3 of gas = $200

How much do you pay for your briquettes?

I based myself on my last gas bill (see subject on GAZPROM):

For my last invoice:

1 - Subscription: 1 month (5,5% VAT included): 11,70 euros / month (previous invoice: 10,50 euros).

2 - Price per Kwh: 0,045 euros including tax (old rate 2007)
........................ 0,046 euros including tax (new "2008)

it's 4,5 times more expensive (including VAT) than Russian gas, but we don't buy only from Russians.

conversion coefficient from Kwh to m3 = 10,99

In fact I have over 6 months an invoice of 364 euros including VAT (including subscription) for 955 m3 (consumption from 01/07/07 to 01/01/08) either:

364 euros / 955 m3 = 0,38 euros TTC / m3

In fact the subscription is 140 euros / year, so it must be distributed over the total consumption of the year.

We can round up to 0,40 euros TTC / m3 including subscription.

Other subject :

- With this radiant sun for a week + cold nights (at my house -8 ° c every night), the temperature of your thermal buffer must have risen? How much is he now?

- At home I stopped my boiler for several days, I turn it on 2 hours / evening (except last night) to put some heat back in the slab. That night without a boiler (stopped since yesterday morning), there were still 19 ° C in the living room / kitchen.
In the afternoon, I open the bay window between the veranda and the living room and it goes back to 22 °.

In the garage in the North there are 10 ° C despite the insulation, but he does not see the sun of the day. I will need a fan that sends hot air from the veranda to the garage, but I have not planned any construction duct.

[Christophe]

It's a big-bag! how do you transport it have them delivered to your home?

Yes with a fenwick The craftsman who makes them is from the village ... on the other hand, I'm not sure that Fenwick is insured on the road

How did you do ? you weighed a few briquettes and averaged ...... and then you counted the briquettes?

No I asked Christine to count them !! (I'm not ingested for nothing eh !!). No kidding: I took a case that I weighed and whose volume I estimated.

It gives an idea of ​​the density of loose briquettes. There is more than measuring the volume of the big bag.

Everything is more or less approximate but it must give an idea to 20% error of the mass of a big bag, especially that their filling and that the wood is not at all constant (currently it is padouck! Briquettes are red).

I did not follow all your calculations ..... what do you want to demonstrate apart from the gaps? What is the price difference between the 2?

For the price it is sold by the ton, it was just a remark "like that" nothing to prove ...

For the rest of your questions on pellets everything is there: https://www.econologie.com/proprietes-de ... -3623.html
or there:
https://www.econologie.com/biocombustibl ... -3622.html

For the price, here are the prices of the "market" it is not those which one pays and fortunately: https://www.econologie.com/forums/speculatio ... t3820.html

I had not seen your gas price, not bad I thought it was aligned much more than that on the price of fuel oil ...

ps: the buffer is at 29.5 (it goes up slowly) it was at minimum at 21.5 before the good weather ... the deom is therefore only used for DHW.

[jean63]

It's a big-bag! how do you transport it have them delivered to your home?

Yes with a fenwick The craftsman who makes them is from the village ... on the other hand, I'm not sure that Fenwick is insured on the road

Is that so ! how does he do that? he has molds, he compresses wood debris or sawdust with a binder? is it a sawmill?

I had not seen your gas price, not bad I thought it was aligned much more than that on the price of fuel oil ...

I saw well you asked ...

ps: the buffer is at 29.5 (it goes up slowly) it was at minimum at 21.5 before the good weather ... the deom is therefore only used for DHW.

29,5 ° is great !! but it must be said that a weather like this at that time for 2 weeks (it must last until the weekend because big high pressure on Europe), it is more than exceptional! .. there is climate change in the air, it looks like !!! ??

During this time, the Chinese and the Afghans tasted for the cold and the snow (TV reports) + the tornadoes in the USA.

To choose, I prefer the sun, but normally there are seasons to respect and there it is anything.

With 29,5 ° in the buffer, is it enough to heat your rooms or do you always light your wood stove?

[Christophe]

Yes, he compresses sawdust with a "homemade" assembly cylinder.

Rah I repeat it again! Whether pellets or briquettes! THERE IS NO BINDER OR GLUE !!!!!!!! It takes by "fried"!

For the buffer it is at 29.8 ° C and I think it will probably exceed 30 ° C before tonight finally we will see because there is still max 1h of exploitable sun there.

Strongly that I have the monitoring installation and connected to the net if possible (see the site of the passive house of the Ardennes) so that you will all know how and when it works .

Otherwise yes it is quite exceptional but it compensates a little rotten summer

For the stove yes we turn it on but that in the evening since there is sun since we have a lot of solar gain in the same room and that the floors of this room are not open (I reserve the energy solar parts not heated by the stove like the bathroom).

ps: when I wrote the message the buffer went to 30.00 ° C (I have a radio probe on the desk). I think he will win a few tenths before tonight because of the layering. Strongly that it continues this sun

[loop]

Bonsoir

Small foray into your discussion and then I disappear

Christophe, about the thermal buffer, did you think about the variable volume
Let me explain :
The tampon consists of several tanks or compartments isolated from each other. Each tank is reheated to the maximum temperature chosen, for example 65 ° C, then its heating circulation is closed to go to the next tank and so on ...
We will of course use in priority the hottest tank before going to draw from the next etc ...
What do you think ?

A+

[jean63]

Otherwise yes it is quite exceptional but it compensates a little rotten summer

Ah well? ... I hadn't noticed I was in Corsica in July
In fact, even in the rental caravan it was cold at night at the start of the month ... anything, never seen that.

By the way tonight, don't turn the boiler back on. It just turned 2 hours this morning, there are 20 ° in the living room after this beautiful sunny afternoon.

[toto65]

Here I thought it would be interesting to draw this superb installation in 3D.
The sanitary water circuit is not faithfully represented for improved readability.

[Christophe]

Hat! It's not far from reality There are just a few small details to review: for example you forgot the V9 solenoid valve and the connections to the oil boiler ... (even if it is no longer used, could it be replaced by cogeneration for example?)

[sergio]

Hello everyone
Christophe I sent you a message in MP can you confirm if you received it.
For this very interesting chip compaction system because by us (in Brittany) huge possibilities of supply of sawmill waste or chips for my part 20 cubic meters per month of chips (and not per week as I told you in my message ) or you have to pay to get rid of it
See you Sergio

[Christophe]

After 2 winters of operation I had and therefore I just modified the hydraulic network presented at the beginning of this subject: heating-insulation / wood-boiler-new-schema-installation-DHW-and-pcs-t4589.html



There were 2 problems with this diagram indicated when the V9 solenoid valve was open, ie when the DHW was at temperature.

a) When C1 was running and C2 was at a standstill: the "deom" loop was like "isolated", no more water was circulating in it and therefore the water no longer passed through the boiler = a valve was missing next to V6 (allowing return to the boiler but not the other way around)

b) When C1 was turning and C2 was turning: all the water passed through the heat exchanger of the tank. Problem: when the boiler power was reduced (end of the night), the DHW water served as a heating buffer and therefore the tank cooled quickly! Assessment: little or more hot water in the morning ...

There was therefore a "conflict" between the 2 circulators ... and the pressure balancing valve V6 could not help it.

Yesterday, I therefore modified the diagram and I did this as a modification at the level of the connection of the DHW tank:



Thanks to the motorized 3-way valve V9 (I had blocked one way on the previous assembly) and according to the T ° of the DHW tank, the 2 "DHW" or "heating" circuits are therefore completely isolated from each other ! This avoids both a) and b)!

In photo it gives (I had not yet put the insulation for the photo) this:

Version 2010:


The butterfly valve (V6) is no longer used for anything (except isolating the tank in the event of non-operation) and is no longer shown in the diagram.

Version 2008:


However, in heating mode the power of the small deom boiler is currently (low temperatures, no thaw during the day) insufficient and it is largely necessary to complete with the wood stove in the living room ...

Blame it on its poor performance on the water? Surely because 15kW in heating is still not "nothing" ... But I remind you that this boiler stove was not originally bought to have to heat the whole house ...

See estimate of the deom wood boiler output here

Otherwise, I just did a calculation of average yield over 10 days this time on the DHW and this time, I get 20% ... by taking the official price of the pellets, it is more economically interesting to heat our hot water with electricity than with pellets!

Well if I had known I would not have bought this deom ...