Per-Eko Ksp Pellet Boiler

Heating, insulation, ventilation, VMC, cooling ... short thermal comfort. Insulation, wood energy, heat pumps but also electricity, gas or oil, VMC ... Help in choosing and implementation, problem solving, optimization, tips and tricks ...
dirk pitt
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by dirk pitt » 29/01/15, 09:46

bellad wrote:Hello boutkiller,
here is a person who interests me, I intend to buy the same, but in 25KW,


watch out for oversizing! what motivates your decision to take a 25kw?
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Re: Per-Eco Grannulated Boiler




by Did67 » 29/01/15, 10:04

boutkiller wrote:
Here I am back, I made the modification of the position of the circulator as on the shema above.

This allowed me to increase the temperature back to my boiler, from 52 to 62 °, since I no longer have condensation in the chimney or in the boiler, even when it is idling.
It also allowed me to lower the set temperature of the boiler and thus reduce the flow temperature from 80 to 68 °.

I think that having reduced the starting temperature of 12 ° will significantly reduce my consumption of grannulé. We'll see that in a few months.

Otherwise my conso of grannulés on winter 2013 / 2014 was 6-7 t.


I had lost sight of this thread!

1) If your boiler does not have integrated relief, a return temperature measurement loop is missing: you must "disconnect" your outlets / returns to the heating circuits and the boiler:

- on one side, a flow / return circuit, with its circulator after the valve, which can "turn" in a loop

- on the other hand, a "bypass" from the hot flow to the return, with at the intersection, a V3V calibrated at 60 °

2) Do not confuse temperature and energy ...

Your consumption will depend on the calories that your house loses. And that!

You can heat with a 25 ° flow, with a large flow and large surface emitters (floors) or 60 °, with a lower flow and small surface radiators. In both cases, if your indoor temperature is the same, the consumption will be the same.

The consumption of pellets is the flow X temperature screen (between flow and return).

A warmer start is often also a warmer return and a lower flow rate (the valves close more often)!

This is a classic confusion.

When we think of garnished conso, it is aut to think of "heat leaks" from the house.

The boiler only adapts its production to demand ... energy.
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by belladonna » 29/01/15, 10:29

dirk pitt wrote:
bellad wrote:Hello boutkiller,
here is a person who interests me, I intend to buy the same, but in 25KW,


watch out for oversizing! what motivates your decision to take a 25kw?

thank you for your attention
I don't have the same config as boutkiller, my installation includes a 1200l dead water buffer which I currently heat with a 19kw boiler insert (15kw for water) and it's too fair
I did a quick calculation (as old elect that's what we did for electric radiators) m3 * 50 = kw, and I arrive at 28kw
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Re: Per-Eco Grannulated Boiler




by dirk pitt » 29/01/15, 14:24

Did67 wrote:1) If your boiler does not have integrated relief, a return temperature measurement loop is missing: you must "disconnect" your outlets / returns to the heating circuits and the boiler:


the difference between a V3V and a V4V is that the V4V creates the 2 loops. by putting the circulator on the boiler return, it has already created its temperature raising loop. the proof: it works.
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by Did67 » 29/01/15, 18:00

Yes. You are right. If you work with a high flow temperature and regulate by taps, it's easier. I was a little too fast !!!
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by boutkiller » 31/01/15, 22:40

bellad wrote:Hello boutkiller,
here is a person who interests me, I intend to buy the same, but in 25KW, on the other hand I will want to use it mainly with wood and occasionally in pellet.
can you tell me if you used wood and if so how does it behave, in terms of regulation
please


Hi Bellad,
This boiler is not designed to operate mainly on wood, it is only for troubleshooting. regulation is only done for granules. I have already tried the wood, it goes upstairs above the pellet floor, simply placed on the water pipes, and frankly it works badly, the fan does not blow on it, you can put only small logs, 30 cm max.
Anyway, I don't recommend it.
Then 25 Kw is huge, I heat my house of 200 m2 with 15 Kw and I am far from turning all the way, if it was to be done again I would take even less powerful, because I have a wood stove for adults cold. As this boiler does not have an automatic ignition system, if it is a little cold it idles and condenses.
If you want more info don't hesitate.
Last edited by boutkiller the 31 / 01 / 15, 23: 13, 1 edited once.
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Re: Per-Eco Grannulated Boiler




by boutkiller » 31/01/15, 23:07

Did67 wrote:
I had lost sight of this thread!

1) If your boiler does not have integrated relief, a return temperature measurement loop is missing: you must "disconnect" your outlets / returns to the heating circuits and the boiler:

- on one side, a flow / return circuit, with its circulator after the valve, which can "turn" in a loop

- on the other hand, a "bypass" from the hot flow to the return, with at the intersection, a V3V calibrated at 60 °

2) Do not confuse temperature and energy ...

Your consumption will depend on the calories that your house loses. And that!

You can heat with a 25 ° flow, with a large flow and large surface emitters (floors) or 60 °, with a lower flow and small surface radiators. In both cases, if your indoor temperature is the same, the consumption will be the same.

The consumption of pellets is the flow X temperature screen (between flow and return).

A warmer start is often also a warmer return and a lower flow rate (the valves close more often)!

This is a classic confusion.

When we think of garnished conso, it is aut to think of "heat leaks" from the house.

The boiler only adapts its production to demand ... energy.


Thank you for your response Did, as dirk says, my 4-way valve is used for the relief loop.

For the consumption it will depend as you say on what the house loses in calories, but in my case, the boiler is outside, and the pipes pass in places that I do not wish to heat (roof spaces) therefore more my the radiator circuit will be cold, the less calories I will lose through the pipes.

Otherwise on the condensation, I got excited a little quickly, with the circulator on the return I condense less, but it still happens that it condenses in the chimney in mild weather.
As this boiler does not have automatic ignition, I think it is inevitable if only to keep a minimum of permanent combustion, I estimate the minimum consumption at around 20-25 kg per day. In this case I stop it completely and I heat myself with my wood stove.
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by belladonna » 01/02/15, 10:24

thank you for your return boutkiller

actually put wood on the pipes it's not great,
I saw some with cast iron grids, I will go deeper

I take 25kw, as said above, because of my 1200l buffer which I intend to increase to 1500l

what worries me the most is the condensation, I think you need a thermostatic valve like "laddomat" or something else
but i don't know if in slow motion it will do anything
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Re: Per-Eco Grannulated Boiler




by Did67 » 01/02/15, 10:52

boutkiller wrote:
For the consumption it will depend as you say on what the house loses in calories, but in my case, the boiler is outside, and the pipes pass in places that I do not wish to heat (roof spaces) therefore more my the radiator circuit will be cold, the less calories I will lose through the pipes.

Otherwise on the condensation, I got excited a little quickly, with the circulator on the return I condense less, but it still happens that it condenses in the chimney in mild weather.
As this boiler does not have automatic ignition, I think it is inevitable if only to keep a minimum of permanent combustion, I estimate the minimum consumption at around 20-25 kg per day. In this case I stop it completely and I heat myself with my wood stove.


1) OK for passage through the attic. I did not know. So lowering the temperature will decrease losses.

It is in your interest, for a given external temperature, to operate at the highest possible flow rate and the "taps" as open as possible. The energy transported is the product of the flow rate and the temperature difference. You have every interest in increasing the flow and reducing the temperature ...

But it will remain, unless you have miles of pipes in the attic and if they are not or poorly insulated, little things anyway!

2) For condensation, the "fire maintenance" should play a trick on you too ... This small fire gives off water vapor, but is probably not sufficient to keep your boiler in temperature ...

The solution would have been a double circuit, as I had suggested:

- on the one hand, a relief loop, with a calibrated thermostat (like the kits called laddomat, but we can very well build it with standard parts); suddenly, this side there, your boiler would maintain its temperature above 60 °

- on the other side, a V3V with the radiator loop; positioned so that you have precisely the minimum temperature just necessary to heat with a maximum flow

What does the manual recommend ????

Because there, you just have to hope that it will resist corrosion ... At worst, in 6 or 8 years, it is pierced!
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Re: Per-Eco Grannulated Boiler




by boutkiller » 01/02/15, 12:55

Did67 wrote:
2) For condensation, the "fire maintenance" should play a trick on you too ... This small fire gives off water vapor, but is probably not sufficient to keep your boiler in temperature ...

The solution would have been a double circuit, as I had suggested:

- on the one hand, a relief loop, with a calibrated thermostat (like the kits called laddomat, but we can very well build it with standard parts); suddenly, this side there, your boiler would maintain its temperature above 60 °

- on the other side, a V3V with the radiator loop; positioned so that you have precisely the minimum temperature just necessary to heat with a maximum flow

What does the manual recommend ????

Because there, you just have to hope that it will resist corrosion ... At worst, in 6 or 8 years, it is pierced!


My assembly is according to this diagram (only the position of the circulator differs from the manufacturer's diagram):
Image

The assembly with the V4V plays almost the same role as the laddomat, I set my V4V to have a return temperature in the boiler above 57 ° C, which is the recommendation of the manufacturer.
But despite all this still manages to condense. Fortunately, the condensation water which comes from the flue leaks through the elbow so there is very little condensation in the boiler, thus "limiting" the corrosion of the heating body.
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