Hydrogen boiler and Stirling

Heating, insulation, ventilation, VMC, cooling ... short thermal comfort. Insulation, wood energy, heat pumps but also electricity, gas or oil, VMC ... Help in choosing and implementation, problem solving, optimization, tips and tricks ...
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swift2540
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by swift2540 » 12/10/08, 16:47

What is this calculation apothecary 107% yield?


This is simply due to the fact that the yield is calculated on the PCI and not on the PCS.

Don't dream, we never saw a boiler making gas : Lol:

At the 2008 Batibouw show, Vaillant presented a similar boiler.
Heating power: 23Kw
Stirling power: 1Kw
Planned commercialization: 2011
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by Remundo » 12/10/08, 17:37

Still, there is a way to become overunitary ... it made me think of that when I saw 107%.

It's an idea I have had for a long time. I even think I read it right or left on the net.

surunitaire in thermal pumping I hear ... Do not lend me the preposterous and metaphysical thoughts of the world of free energy ... :!:

The diagram is as follows:
100 J burns give:
40 J electrical and 60 J thermal thanks to microcogen (its efficiency should be increased to 40% (possible with the SPRATL concept).

Then the 40 J electric are injected into a heat pump of efficiency 4 (the COP for heating engineers)

So we have 160 Joule of heating in addition to the 60: 220 Joule of heating (low temperature for houses ...).

Combining microcogeneration and a heat pump is therefore a way of multiplying the calorific value of the initial fuel by 2,2.

Not bad in times of crisis! it will be worth all the premiums to the tank : Idea:

The Germans are perhaps not far from doing that, they are already leader in PAC, and soon leader in micro-cog ... And also leader in boilers ... When it comes to heating and energy, the Deutsch know what they're talking about, even if they keep the gas and coal wart in their electric mix ...

During this time, we run nuclear power plants and we release 50% of the nuclear fission heat into the atmosphere, either directly in the air cooler, or indirectly in the Joule effect of power lines. : Idea:
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by Capt_Maloche » 13/10/08, 00:10

Yes it's on the pCS :D

I also think about the cogé !! with a cap
a 1KW Heat Pump with a COP of 4.5 (if so) will produce enough to make the energy expenditure profitable

It is true that I am disappointed with the performance of the stirling (even if the electrical efficiency is included), it seems to me even rather low with a direct gas flame in hot source and the return of the heating circuit as cold source, the delta must be over 1000 ° C ...

there they announce a return of 20%
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by Remundo » 13/10/08, 09:46

Well yes but they took a "free piston Stirling engine"

The regenerator is not efficient and the kinematics is not constrained, everything works by vibrations.

So the Stirling cycle is very poorly respected.

On the other hand, for noise and reliability, and perhaps the cost, they must be able to find their way: a high efficiency of electrical production does not seem to be a priority in their specifications. : Idea:
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by BIOCRITT Limousin » 16/10/08, 10:21

Hello,

first of all, I would like to ask you a few questions that will no doubt seem "silly" to you:

-how does it happen that during the compression / decompression cycle the gas regains its characteristics (volumes ..); it is not deteriorated by the sudden change in volume?

-the gas in the cylinder retains its capacity for how many hours of operation.

-is it possible to operate this type of engine with hydrogen as fuel? because it has a PCI 2,4 times that of natural gas!

Thank you in advance for your answers.
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by Capt_Maloche » 16/10/08, 10:35

Hi Biocrit

Yes indeed : Cheesy:

The gas in the stirling is confined in a sealed assembly, like a fridge compressor

Second, even a quick change in pressure / temperature never decomposed a single gas

We operate a stirling with a hot source, no matter what the source of energy, hydrogen is much more expensive than natural gas because of storage
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by BIOCRITT Limousin » 16/10/08, 10:59

Capt_Maloche wrote:Hi Biocrit

Yes indeed : Cheesy:

The gas in the stirling is confined in a sealed assembly, like a fridge compressor

Second, even a quick change in pressure / temperature never decomposed a single gas



I learned in my previous classes that a gas never regains its initial volume when it is subjected to a decompression or violent compression ... did you tell me? : Cry:

On the other hand, do you know if it is possible to get a simple functional stirling engine and not decoration.? ..

thanks.

I'm new to stirling so be indulgent! :| please.
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by Remundo » 16/10/08, 13:17

BIOCRITT limousin wrote:I learned in my previous classes that a gas never regains its initial volume when it is subjected to a decompression or violent compression ... did you tell me? : Cry:

On the other hand, do you know if it is possible to get a simple functional stirling engine and not decoration.? ..

thanks.

I'm new to stirling so be indulgent! :| please.

Hi Biocritt and Cuckoo Captain '

We haven't lied to you because brutal evolutions are irreversible: concretely, the system does not return to its initial state because energy is degraded in friction during evolution.

However, this has no effect on the chemical composition of the gas, and as long as it does not escape, it can work for a very long time. Simply, the performance of the machine is deteriorated (and not the fluid).

For organic liquids, there can be degradations on the other hand; in principle, they are still very low. Fridges work without problem for decades without changing their refrigerant.

For simple Stirlings on a human scale and "not toys", it is on the German side that it is happening. SunMachine, De Dietrich and SOLO (which recently changed name ...). These are alpha type engines in general.

But commercially, it is still very much in its infancy, even for these 3 firms. They “sell” them (forecast 2009) in principle in combination with a device, either a Holzpellet (wood cogeneration), or an Erdgas version (natural gas) or a solar dish (Disch Stirling).

SOLO rather made it in heavy industry and had participated in the Eurodish solar project (see my site for more info) with a Stirling of 10 kW elec and 30 kW thermal.

In other large manufacturers, there is SES (Stirling Energy System) in the US.

For my part, I am developing SPRATL as experimental research with Pascal HA PHAM.

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by I Citro » 16/10/08, 14:41

: Arrow: I discovered this weekend at I'NOV show new stirling engines that seem close to marketing.

They are associated either:
- to a pellet boiler
- to a gas boiler
- to a parabolic solar boiler

The interest of stirling consists in improving the overall yield thanks to the production of electricity (cogeneration).

The manufacturer: Sunmachine
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by Christophe » 24/10/08, 10:37

Capt_Maloche wrote:Now, with the account, with gas at 0.053 € TTC From Kw.h and a yield of 1 / 4.8 it makes the electric KW.h prices produced by this boiler x 0.053 4.8 0.254 = € !!

Waiting to see if like for photo voltaic, EDF will purchase the product KW.h 0.55 € :D in which case I moved ten and I take my retirement : Cheesy: it would make a benef of 72 € per day : Mrgreen: and how CO2?


Tssss thank you for the info but it's anything else this thing!

a) DeDietrich lies by saying that it is profitable in 5 years for the individual !!! Since it is subject to subsidies and it depends on the price of fossils.

I do not think that EdF buys back 0.55 € for an electricity of origin ... fossil!

b) Exactly it remains FOSSIL electricity !! As you say: with CO2 ... : Evil:

You should copy / paste this info in this topic (for info): https://www.econologie.com/forums/moteurs-st ... t5703.html

If it remains fossil and emits CO2, what is the interest of a stirling compared to a small generator set in cogeneration? Frankly? This product is total pipo ...

DeDietrich would have done better to invest to increase the output (70% shit) of its wood boiler ...

I updated the 2 articles that you scanned in 2006, we can now read them directly here: https://www.econologie.com/forums/chaudiere- ... t2490.html

Funny this one, which plans a marketing in ... spring 2007:

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