Boiler ÖkoFEN pelematic principles of regulation

Heating, insulation, ventilation, VMC, cooling ... short thermal comfort. Insulation, wood energy, heat pumps but also electricity, gas or oil, VMC ... Help in choosing and implementation, problem solving, optimization, tips and tricks ...
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by Did67 » 28/11/12, 08:16

fbedon wrote:Should you take a display "iiii iiii iiii iiii iiii iiii ii i" for 100% burner power?
And "iiii iiii i" for about 30%?
and i guess "ii i" for 3%?

please


So no :

i ...................... i = modulation level 1 = min = 30% of the nominal power


iiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii = level 17 = 100% of the nominal power

And so, if the stop occurs and you are still at iiiiiiii ........ i, it is because the boiler has not had time to "slow down", which it does by step.

On the TEM, we can not regulate the opening / closing vietsses.

If you have no more warranty, you can, in the P2XX of the chauidère (protected), lower by 1 °, or even 2 ° maxi, the parameter which is called rated power.
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by fbedon » 28/11/12, 13:43

Did67 thank you,
I have the black TEM, and for the "vacation returns" mode I will look at how the remote control communicates, I have the impression that it is stupidly a CTN (resistance with negative temperature coefficient) associated with a potentiometer , with a normal position, an open circuit position and a short circuit position, it should not be too difficult to vary the setpoint or the operating mode with an external relay.

Who would have done that already? Or would have already opened an inner probe?
Fred
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by fbedon » 04/12/12, 20:56

Hi everybody,
I opened and watched the circuit of the remote control TEM, well, it's more complicated than a simple CTN!
There must be an I2C bus or something similar that communicates with the potentiometer, the thermal probe and the 3 switch positions.

So I don't really have any idea for my "return from vacation" order ...


Fred
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Holiday return mode




by fbedon » 10/12/12, 18:27

Hello
I inspected the Ohmmeter circuit of the room sensor;
The 3 switch positions ground to either the Auto input or the Comfort input, in the middle the 2 lugs are in the air.

So I released 3 son connected to these terminals 3, I intend to connect to a perpetual schedule timer Muller type SC18-10PRO, to force the transition from Stop mode to Auto mode at the desired date.

Or better, auto mode (with the reduced mode selected all the time to maintain a minimum 12 ° C for example) to comfort mode a few hours before our return.

to be continued.
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by Did67 » 11/12/12, 08:34

It lacks an essential element to understand:

1) the boiler has only one role: to maintain a supply of hot water, roughly between 65 ° and 75 ° (in heating period therefore demand - which is indicated by the TEM!).

2) The regulation does not absolutely control the boiler, it acts on the motorized V3V to "use up sparingly" this water reserve.

So the boiler can turn without there being any particular need. And it heats without the chair turns.

This regulation is a continuous, sliding regulation ... No "on / off"

3) The boiler is controlled by an electronic board (open the curved part under the dashboard - remove the two screws and lift and pull forward).

To have perfect combustion, she is "autistic". She takes care of burning the pellets as best as possible, while trying to stop as little as possible (she tries to converge towards a hot temperature of 70 °). Automatically. And doesn't give a damn about the heating regulation ...

4) Motorized V3V control functions as follows:

a) according to the external temp, the regulation (the box placed in the dashboard - different from the plate below) calculates at what temperature it must send the water in the circuits to compensate for the calorie losses of the house.

It does this according to a chuaffe curve, which tells it, mathematically, for each external temp, what this temperature is. This curve is parameterized by two parameters: slope and "base of curve" to adapt it to each house ...

b) the room sensor only corrects this calculation: if it finds a discrepancy with the setpoint, it adds (if it is not hot enough) or removes (if it is too hot) degrees to the temperature calculated for departure.

It is also a remote command to modify the setpoint (the wheel that one turns) and to put in stop, in auto mode or in forced comfort mode ...

That's all.

It is important to understand that a boiler with a regulation of this type can operate without a room sensor. Maybe start there, do not put it - it's an option !!!

And absolutely get out of your head that it is this "thermostat" which controls the boiler. It is not a thremostat (even if it looks like it!). This is no longer a grandpa's boiler!


PS: do you know why a person sells an Okofen after 6 years ???? That puzzles me !
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by fbedon » 11/12/12, 20:55

Hi Did67
Yes, I understood the principle of the law of water and 2 autonomous electronic boards in the boiler Okofen.
You have made a very good summary that every user must have in mind to optimize the use of his boiler.

Nevertheless, the room sensor, does have some properties of a thermostat;
It allows to put the boiler on Off.
To modulate the temperature of the water and therefore of the habitat
And to force the operation in comfort mode.

I can therefore, thanks to it, consider switching from the Stop mode to Auto mode by simulating the closing of the mode selector switch.

I do not think it's a good idea to leave the boiler on the way with a set point at 12 ° C for 10 days, it may consume more to hold at 70 ° C than to heat the house itself.


I say nonsense?
Fred
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by Did67 » 12/12/12, 10:17

fbedon wrote:
Nevertheless, the room sensor, does have some properties of a thermostat;
It allows to put the boiler on Off.
To modulate the temperature of the water and therefore of the habitat
And to force the operation in comfort mode.

I can therefore, thanks to it, consider switching from the Stop mode to Auto mode by simulating the closing of the mode selector switch.

I do not think it's a good idea to leave the boiler on the way with a set point at 12 ° C for 10 days, it may consume more to hold at 70 ° C than to heat the house itself.


I say nonsense?
Fred


1) "Thermostat property"

We must agree on the terms.

In the "classic" sense, a thermostat controls the boiler according to the temperature observed ...

There, we speak rather of "remote control" (so as not to have to go down into the boiler room). So yes, we can put it off, on forced operation.

For the stop, there is effectively a signal which passes from the regulation to the plate. It comes down to this: "you have to heat". This is the only communication between the regulation (which manages the mini, etc ...) and the board.

Or we can change the setpoint (the temperature targeted by the regulation). But it will play on the V3V, not directly on the boiler.

2) So yes, by simulating failover, you can remote control. there, there is no doubt! You deport the order a little further: on your mobile!

3) Frost protection, frankly, I do not know anymore. Put on the TEM, I'm almost sure, that the chauidère is off and starts up only when the temp drops (below 8 I think ???).

And that, you will not be able to simulate

What must be seen is that if you put the TEM regulation in "frost protection" mode, it switches to "auto" mode by the sole action of the toggle button on the remote control (room sensor) .

If this is the case, you put in frost protection mode when leaving and two days before, you "remote control" in "auto" mode.

To have. But I doubt.
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by Did67 » 12/12/12, 10:28

fbedon wrote:I do not think it's a good idea to leave the boiler on the way with a set point at 12 ° C for 10 days, it may consume more to hold at 70 ° C than to heat the house itself.

Fred


Knowing that, because of their good insulation, these heaters lose about 1% of the equivalent of the heat produced at the nominal power. This remains very limited.

But, sure, it's lost.

The heating limits remain to be deepened: it is the temperature above which the boiler stops (and lets the temperature "slip" / not in stand by while maintaining 70 °).

When trying with - 5 ° as chuaffe limit in lowered mode and in comfort mode, you put the chauway in auto mode, it only goes up and miantien the temperature if the external temp goes below - 5 °. Otherwise, cricualetru and boiler stop ..

Or - 2 or 0 ... To find the right external temperature such that the boiler does not start for nothing without fearing frost inside given the inertia of the house:!
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Freeze mode on Okofen pelematic




by fbedon » 13/12/12, 21:14

Hi everybody,
I try the translation of the chapter "frost protection" from the doc in German version PM2940 (105076 06 / 99).

When the outdoor temperature drops below 2 ° C (frost protection mode limit) the circulator is started.
The temperature of the frost protection mode follows the following diagram.
Image
(1 slope on the example)

The boiler is started if the temperature (of the circuit) falls below 10 ° C. It heats up to the value of the frost protection curve ...

Then we refer to the parameters 3-9 and 3-4, but it's really not clear. (I can pass the German version to amateurs)
Who can explain their meaning?
3-4 heating limit in lowering.
3-9 minimum degree of modulation.

When does the boiler stop?
When the outside temperature goes above 2 ° C?
When the temperature of the frost protection curve is reached?

When does it restart?
when the temperature of the boiler falls below its minimum temperature?
When the temperature of the circuit goes below 10 ° C?

The French version does not really help.
Thanks for your help
Fred
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by Did67 » 14/12/12, 14:45

3-4 - heating limit in lowering mode

It's simple and I remember it:

This is the external temperature above which the regulation will no longer give a "hot water need" signal and order the circulators to stop.

From factory, it is on - 5 ° C [which is very small, but these people come from Austria where most of the houses are well isolated and almost BBC]

That means :

- during the night-time lowering periods, if it is more than - 5 °, everything stops: no "heating need" signal, everything is saved, the boiler lets its temperature run (and no longer maintains its minimum); in short, no more heating

- if it is less than - 5 °, the regulation maintains heating at the "lowered" temperature, according to the operating mode that I have already explained to you: the "autistic" boiler maintains its water between 65 and 75, the V3V pilot control and circulators to send the water to the temperature required to maintain the desired temperature by lowering (eg 17 °)!

- if at night, the temperature drops and goes for example from 0 ° to - 6 °, quite simply, the system "wakes up" from - 5 °, the regulation gives its signal "need for hot water", the boiler starts , the circulator starts up, the V3V is positioned as it should be, etc ...

And if the temperature goes above - 5 °, everything stops ... It's as simple as that!

This has nothing to do with "frost protection", which is one of the operating modes: auto mode (day / night programming), forced mode ("day" temperature), "summer" mode (only preparation of the 'DHW) and "frost protection" mode (avoid freezing during absences).

3-9: a hole, I can not remember! I have to dig myself ...
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