Ban on oil boilers from 2022 and gas in 2021!

[Ahmed]

Maybe with a good fermenter and chopped wood ...

[sicetaitsimple]

It starts of course with the ban on new housing, but we must not be deceived: the next step will be to "piss off" the current users of gas (in the name of national energy independence ensured by Nigerien uranium). ).

I don't think so, but I could be wrong!
On the other hand, gas in new housing will be subject to overall housing energy performance criteria that are certainly binding. But hey, you have to know what you want, reduce or not long-term our dependence on fossils.

PS: don't worry about Nigerian uranium, to my knowledge most of the current imports come from .... from Kazakhstan .....

[Ahmed]

Thanks for reassuring me!

[gegyx]

to my knowledge most of the current imports come ... from Kazakhstan .....

We could easily make a revolution to recover the vein

[Christophe]

Finally this Law fell on time!

[NCSH]

Hello, already, the installation of fuel oil will be prohibited only for new constructions, and it seems to me that nothing will prevent replacing a broken oil boiler with another more efficient.
Anyway, with all the heat pumps installed + electric vehicles, I think we are going to have problems with electricity production.

One of the solutions for limiting the peaks in electricity consumption imposed by electric heaters in very cold weather is the little-known hybrid heat pump.
For some years, boiler manufacturers have been offering them for the European market in anticipation of this future ban on the sale of oil and gas boilers.

These are condensing boilers (gas, or even oil, wood) to which are added a reduced power unit of the aerothermal heat pump type operating for positive temperatures. Indeed, the lower the temperature, the less these heat pumps produce heat, to the point of consuming as much electricity as they heat.
This phenomenon of reduction of the COP by negative temperature is well known and recurrent for decades, it obliges the dwellings equipped with these reversible air conditioners of the South of Europe or aerothermal heat pumps to have a second means of heating (radiators stoves, ...) in addition to be able to comfortably pass the episodes of cold...

The proliferation of these new kind of electric heaters will lead to increasingly high electricity consumption peaks throughout Europe, it will be necessary to be able to produce electricity even during prolonged episodes of cold and barometric swamps ; this is why certain countries such as the Netherlands have already enacted the use of these hybrid heat pumps wherever it is not possible to extend heating networks in urbanized areas.
See p 16, in English:

September 2022 - Netherlands - slingerland_nl_energy_future_2022.pdf

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In France, we are also starting to look into this solution, see p 15 the evolution of the COP according to the temperature:

June 2022 - Positive-externalites-of-PAC-hybrids-vf(1).pdf

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[Christophe]

As long as we are talking about efficient PACs, take a look at the PACES: renewable-energy/paces-spontaneous-flow-heat-pump-jl-brochet-t14357.html

PACES = spontaneous flow heat pump (JL Brochet)

My level in physics is insufficient to judge the veracity but it looked very serious...the initial paper dates from my studies more than 20 years ago...

If I remember correctly, it's at the molecular or atomic level that it happens and it's the implementation that requires microprocessor technology...I don't have that in my garage!

Otherwise there is this: https://www.econologie.com/chaudiere-th ... r-energie/

And the famous gas-fired cogeneration heat pump from Sanyo (2008): heating-insulation / gas-heat-pump-in-cogeneration-by-sanyo-t6555.html

[NCSH]

To start this new year, we might as well start with good news. But also by a rant!

The deployment of heat pumps or hybrid boilers is beginning to be almost officially supported in France: it seems that a few media have spoken about it. It is from a French-speaking source but very attentive to what is happening in Europe.

https://www.enerzine.com/10-solutions-h ... 07-2022-12

If someone has other sources, this will allow us to verify the extent of the lack of information on this subject, like so many others in France: we would think we were in the time of the ORTF (before 1976) where all the information was locked, which allowed the peripheral radios (RMC and RTL) to instill some fresh air between the ears of the French.
I was too young at that time to compare, but it would seem that currently, despite the almost infinite multiplication of information dissemination channels, such important news is relayed only by rare me(r) days.

The advantage of these hybrid boilers for both individual and collective heating will be to allow in addition to switch from one energy source to another according to a fixed temperature (typically 0°C), to take into account the possibility of off-peak electricity tariffs in the event of an abundance of electricity from renewable sources when there is a lot of wind in winter, but also depending on the size of the available stocks of methane (and therefore to move back the tipping point around -4/5°C, with a Cop which then drops from 2.5 to 2.0). It thus becomes possible to make stocks last longer, until a possible cold snap coming from the Arctic, sometimes until March (called "kalte Dunkelflaut" by the Germans, or "cold spell" by the Anglo- Saxons).

This kind of optimization is already commonly practiced in domestic and tertiary heating networks, natural gas is increasingly relegated to the role of back-up, forgiveness, emergency in case of failures of other heat sources. , or even not very cold.
It should be noted that in one of the most advanced countries in Europe, Denmark, other sources of heat are also used: thermal solar collectors during cold but sunny periods, high-power heat pumps (about thermal megawatt), which will increasingly relieve biomass-energy boilers...

[sicetaitsimple]

The deployment of heat pumps or hybrid boilers...

Yes, this is an elegant solution. But it comes up against two drawbacks in my opinion, especially in the case of individuals:
- it is an expensive solution to purchase because in principle it involves juxtaposing a gas boiler sized for the coldest conditions (as if it were alone) with a heat pump for milder conditions. There are definitely some integration gains over two separate devices, but it doesn't have to be huge.
- it is a complex solution in terms of operation (troubleshooting?) and certainly the cost of annual visits/maintenance.
But the advantages you mention in terms of managing electricity flows and gas stocks are undeniable.

[NCSH]

The deployment of heat pumps or hybrid boilers...

Yes, this is an elegant solution. But it comes up against two drawbacks in my opinion, especially in the case of individuals:
- it is an expensive solution to purchase because in principle it involves juxtaposing a gas boiler sized for the coldest conditions (as if it were alone) with a heat pump for milder conditions. There are definitely some integration gains over two separate devices, but it doesn't have to be huge.
- it is a complex solution in terms of operation (troubleshooting?) and certainly the cost of annual visits/maintenance.
But the advantages you mention in terms of managing electricity flows and gas stocks are undeniable.

Must see on piece!

If someone on the forum has info.

This could be a subject to follow in the years to come.