What floor slab to let the most heat?

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RON
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Registration: 09/11/10, 00:00

What floor slab to let the most heat?




by RON » 09/11/10, 20:45

Hello everyone,

we are going to build a house in which we are going to install a 2,5T type Tulikivi type stove corresponding to the surface of the 220m2 house.
Our desire: that the radiation of our stove can pass through the slab to the floor. On the other hand we do not wish to open this slab to preserve the stage of the noise of the rdc.
Our question: what would be the ideal composition and mounting of the slab to allow the heat to climb and cross it for optimal comfort upstairs?

FYI the stove will be located in front of the stairs leading to the floor and we will not put heating in the rooms (only electrical outlets in case we would be forced to ask radiators).
Other info a VMC double stream will be installed also.


Thank you in advance for your opinion.

Kind regards. : Shock:
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dedeleco
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by dedeleco » 09/11/10, 22:25

You need a good driver of heat from the bottom to the top:
copper or aluminum are the best conductors so bars of these metals 10x10cm at least section can conduct the heat up to each room so well mounted but it is very very unusual considering the price of these metals and their weight !!

Otherwise, as at home, on insert, you have the hot air ducts that a heat exchanger in the stove or insert lead the heat with fan blower to the different rooms.
It is effective for heating and in my opinion essential staff for heating rooms !!
I do not know if your mass stove has planned a forced air exchanger by sheaths ?????
But seen on a photo of the beautiful stove at 12000 € against a wall, a heat exchanger compartment behind the brick stove to recover the heat behind the stove and send it up in ducts can be done by a mason easily, to my opinion !! (a closed space of 5 to 10 cm behind the brick stove by removing some of the insulation from behind in the stove)
http://www.forumconstruire.com/construi ... -51872.php

It is necessary to think carefully about the technical operation with the VMC double flux.

Otherwise, with a little luck and patience, the warm air can go up a little upwards towards the rooms open doors !!!

Look at the practical problem of overheating the living room in mild weather too ???
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dedeleco
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by dedeleco » 09/11/10, 22:31

Given this information about the distributor:
http://www.dutry.com/merken/tulikivi/tu ... deles.html
Choose your Tulikivi in ​​consultation with your distributor!
There are many more models, variations, possibilities of installation and connection to the chimney, adaptations of the calorific value, etc ... that we can show you here. Your Tulikivi distributor is a true specialist with the necessary experience to find with you the ideal solution.

you can get a special duct-type heat exchanger for the rooms since the stove is built on site!
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aerialcastor
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by aerialcastor » 10/11/10, 00:12

A mass stove heats mainly by radiation.
So anything that is not "seen" by the stove will not be heated.

Afterwards it should be seen that the radiant heated surfaces will give some heat by convection to the air and the VMC 2F will homogenize the temperatures.
But will that be enough? Hard to say.

A heavy uninsulated slab, neither from below nor from the top (so no parquet or false ceiling) will absorb the radiation emitted by the stove and once hot will re-emit this radiation. But it will not be very reactive.
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by dedeleco » 10/11/10, 12:11

A mass stove heats mainly by radiation.

Given its surface, that it does not become red at more than 500 ° C, it heats also by thermal convection of the air circulating around !!

Gosse, I remember stoves in class becoming dark red that was heating him by radiation for sure !!
At that time teachers and 40 children like me, were not aware of the risks, with a small stove worn, with a hole in the home, which was booming half an hour after startup and became red behind the fireplace! A whole winter like this in a building of 400 years !! True !!!

So, I think you can ask for an air exchanger behind the stove to send and regulate the heating as well, for upstairs as for the living room.
The catalog offers this with water exchanger and radiators, but you can request it with air, as the stove is customized.
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by aerialcastor » 10/11/10, 12:41

The mass stove accumulates the energy of the flames in .... suspens .... its mass.
As a result there is a lot of material but not very "hot" the surface temperature does not exceed 70 ° C.
Radiation takes precedence over convection, which is why it is a very pleasant mode of heating. We close our eyes and we feel afterwards heated by the sun, with a coctail in his hand and some vahines who make hula-hula half-naked.

This has nothing to do with a light stove whose surface temperature is very important which increases the convection exchange.
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by dedeleco » 10/11/10, 13:22

This has nothing to do with a light stove whose surface temperature is very important which increases the convection exchange.

As a physicist, I invite aerialcastor to put rigorous scientific figures on this statement to find the opposite for a large stove in a large room!

It is frightening the number of antiscientific claims on the heating by the commercial that we hear everywhere and make hair ruffle scientists!

The radiation with Stefan's law grows as T ^ 4 very quickly (T in ° Kelvin is 273 + T ° C).
You double about 300 ° C, and the radiation is 2 ^ 4 = 16 times more, than T ordinary, is huge, which does not convection that starts quickly for just a few degrees, forcing to double or triple glazing, but grows less quickly, blocked by the viscosity of the insulating air (very complex)!


references and links to read and assimilate:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermal_radiation
http://www.learnthermo.com/T1-tutorial/ ... B/pg21.php
http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/radia ... d_431.html

http://books.google.fr/books?id=ZdyOoyA ... an&f=false
http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transfert_de_rayonnement
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radiation
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aerialcastor
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by aerialcastor » 10/11/10, 13:54

As a person who speaks French it would be nice to make sentences understandable by this:

The radiation with Stefan's law grows as T ^ 4 very quickly (T in ° Kelvin is 273 + T ° C).
You double about 300 ° C, and the radiation is 2 ^ 4 = 16 times more, than T ordinary, is huge, which does not convection that starts quickly for just a few degrees, forcing to double or triple glazing, but grows less quickly, blocked by the viscosity of the insulating air (very complex)!

it is not.


Then as physicists it would be nice not to mix everything
Stefan's law is valid for black bodies which I quote wikipedia:
The black body is an ideal object that absorbs all the electromagnetic energy it receives, without thinking or transmitting it. There is no other hypothesis about the nature of the object.


Which is not at all the case of a stove
It's no use sending astrophysical links

And as you like the links:
http://pdmlub.canalblog.com/
http://www.poeles-cheminees.com/poele_de_masse.htm
http://www.poeledemasse.info/pourquoi.html
http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Po%C3%AAle_de_masse

: Evil: : Evil: : Evil: : Evil: : Evil:
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dedeleco
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by dedeleco » 10/11/10, 14:43

Stefan's law is valid for black bodies
Which is not at all the case of a stove
no other hypothesis about the nature of the object.

Sidenant, a stove, white, green or black radiates according to the same law, and for the infrared is a beautiful black body which radiates according to this law in T ^ 4 is 2 ^ 4 = 16 times more 300 ° C than 27 ° C !!

You have never read, even a few minutes, this basic knowledge, let alone assimilated.
If you find them incomprehensible learn the minimal knowledge to talk about this topic
1) power law: T ^ 4 means that T multiplied by 2 gives 2 ^ 4 = 2x2x2x2 = 16 for 3 it is 3x3x3x3 = (do the calculation)
2) T Kelvin basic at -273 ° C we reach the minimum, T possible!
3) black body physical abstraction to be rigorous but valid for any body with a coefficient called albedo (close to 1 infrared) that does not change the law in power in T ^ 4 very fast !!

The sun is a black body at 6000 ° K that radiates to death with this law in T ^ 4 valid in astrophysics
Like a stove 270 + 70K is also a black body !!
To put yourself in the crane ::

4) learn thermal convection, much more complex, see all the links on google for convection in English too !!

5) after having assimilated these ba ba and calculated the report of radiation on convection numerically you will be able to affirm on what you do not know in physics.

Finally to repeat the heating mistakes that make the hair of scientists written by repetition like parrots who do not understand anything, internet, outside the scientific sites, is remarkable !!
not to mention scary scams with free energy and others !!

So I invite you to understand for yourself by doing the minimum effort instead of repeating like a parrot.
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aerialcastor
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by aerialcastor » 10/11/10, 14:56

Good dedeleco you break them and I'm not kidding.
I do not care about ego battles. You tell bullshit about bullshit and not just about this thread.
You have an advantage to you you have the time to do long texts where you mix everything and you gauss. I do not necessarily have time


Tell the thousand Finns and Swedes who have a stove mass that their stove convection heaters and not radiation is going to make them laugh.

On this I leave you no need to answer, if I come on a forum it is to modestly help people not to fool me into believing that I know myself in all areas

On this good day and I hope we will not cross on another thread.
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Save a tree, eat a beaver.

It is no use to succeed in life, what it takes is to miss his death.

 


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