What floor slab to let the most heat?

[dedeleco]

No, because even at 20 ° C and 20mm of mercury under pressure, under partial vacuum (only water vapor) the evaporated vapor flow remains high (the secret of the heat pipe) and therefore the significant heat flow !!!
It is the same as an old central heating thermosiphon, but with the vapor which rises at the top quickly (no air) condenses at the top, the drops slide on the sloping side in a funnel and collected downwards by a small thermally insulated pipe (prevents re-evaporation on the return) end the cycle !!
It is like a closed distillation on itself.
The only drawback is the need to have the cold at the top and a 100cm2 waterproof pipe (section like solid copper) under vacuum and return in funnel by small internal pipe !!

You can put other gas liquids in it, acetone (56 ° C and a few liters), alcohol, butane under pressure, and many others which I do not think boiling around 30 ° C to 40 ° C)

It's simple if you don't look for the unnecessary ultimate performance.

[aerialcastor]

I remind you that the PDM is already planned, so debating on the types of stove will not answer the question.



The solution you propose to put a hot air distributor goes against theoretical studies and especially feedback.
In addition connecting an air exchanger to a stove that has not planned for that, will not be easy, and above all ruin the performance of the PDM by altering its operation.
And put a hot air distributor while a VMC 2F and planned it has no interest.

The metal floor, it will be happiness at the acoustic level, they who wanted to preserve the noise floor they will not be disappointed.

Anyway, I maintain what I said in my first message and I will not copy all the others to substantiate.
The creator of the thread has what to choose from.

[dedeleco]

Fun these inconsistent answers!
It is frightening in the field of heating what there can be anti scientific and inconsistent claims !!

The heating downstairs hoping that the heat arrives at the top thanks to the hot air which goes up, reminds me child at my grandparents over 50 years ago, where I slept upstairs with a little bit of hot air which arrived in the cold, very ineffective !!

It is absurd to continue such an insufficient heating in a beautiful modern house when in our time the circulation of hot air (or even hot water with radiators) is very to the point !!

The manufacturer in his catalog has the possibility of water exchanger and radiators and therefore if we ask him, it has the possibility of adding a circulation of hot air upwards for each bedroom (and the living room) which will make the whole house very pleasant !!
The "PDM will not be ruined" if designed by the manufacturer !!
One can intelligently pair with CMV to distribute the heat and bring in the new outside air heated by exchanger with the inside air which leaves, then heated by the PDM to compensate for the losses of the house before going to the rooms and the stay, ensuring a uniform heat (with an adjustable part of indoor air circulating in addition).
A joint study of the PDM builder (possibility of study in their catalog) with the competent architect and heating engineer must ensure correct and balanced operation !!

Otherwise the metal exchanger or the heat pipe are more ideas too unconventional and original to be realized but a possibility to know!
The hot air ducts are enough to couple with the double flow VMC which performs an analogous function without compensating for the thermal losses of the house which is the responsibility of the PDM with exchanger. !!

I sleep in 2 houses 900Km away with insert and circulator of this type, very quickly hot when I arrive in the cold house (1/2 hour) by forced air !! (the walls heat up much more slowly)
Their price for the inserts, for each of them is much lower than the mass stove which is only useful for storing heat all day for work or sleep (you have to wake up at least every 1 to 3 hours with insert or ordinary stove), very important interest justifying the price of the PDM !!

Finally with aerialcastor we have the same conclusion:
"The creator of the yarn has something to choose from."
but I invite them not to have a new house with the defects of my grandparents' house just after the war, that is to say a very weak heating of the rooms hoping for the arrival of hot air which rises very slowly !! while some ducts provide very rapid heating, when I arrive in my second home instead of waiting for the end of the weekend to finally see some heat coming !!

[dedeleco]

For Christophe, rather, a good heat pipe the Loop Heat pipe which creates the ideal loop circuit like the thermosyphon but much more effective:
http://www.thermacore.com/products/loop ... vices.aspx

Loop Heat Pipes:
Meeting a Range of Thermal Challenges

Get the thermal performance of a heat pipe - plus flexible design capabilities to ensure reliable heat removal over long distances regardless of gravity - with loop heat pipe systems from Thermacore.

loop heat pipe for thermal managementLoop heat pipe thermal solutions are completely passive (minimal moving parts), two-phase heat transfer devices that are bendable, flexible and routable. They can even operate as thermal diodes to prevent backward heat leak. Ideal for cooling the dispersed control systems found throughout today's military aircraft, Thermacore loop heat pipes can incorporate multiple evaporators and passive / active thermal regulations.

Thermacore loop heat pipes are at work in aerospace, medical / test equipment and satellite thermal management applications, helping designers meet the strictest specifications and deal with the most rugged operatinLoop heat pipe diagramg environments.

For simple, lightweight and flexible heat removal - in long-distance heat transfer applications where conventional heat pipes aren't feasible - the Therma-Loop® heat pipe offers cost-saving, high performance. It has a wick structure only in the evaporator, allowing a low-mass solution. In its simplest configuration, Therma-Loop is gravity-aided and has no wick structure.

A bit like in a fridge, but without compressor and inert and passive!
Without porous portion it is of a basic simplicity, much simpler than a fridge but with pipes of the same kind !!
A big one for the vapor and fine for the liquid.

[aerialcastor]

Yeah Deleco it's easy to watch half the things that suit you.
30% less on the emissivity coefficient, that is 30% less on the power emitted by IR.
But it is especially on the heat transfer coef that the difference will be preponderant because between brick and metal it is not the same.

In any case we still do not see your calculations, you contradict those of others but after there is nothing.



You offer a solid aluminum, copper or even silver floor. The diamond hypothesis has even been considered.
The forced air solution so that there is a VMC 2F it's true that it's great.
I'm not even talking about the heat pipes nonexistent solution in the trade.

But it is I who make incoherent answers ... YES YES
I'm not against smoking joints it hovers but at some point you have to come back down to Earth.

[Christophe]

Hihiih is not a false beaver (you will notice that my suggestion responses are still the most realistic) ... so install a recovery of hot air and it will be resolved.

For Christophe, rather, a good heat pipe the Loop Heat pipe which creates the ideal loop circuit like the thermosyphon but much more effective

Yes except that when you read the link: there is, apparently, no domestic application of such a system and there is indeed a significant exchange surface on the "redistribution" side of calories ...

I am not convinced that the construction of an evaporative heat pipe is within everyone's reach (not mine anyway) and so when I was talking about large exchange surfaces it was without carrier fluid, just with a metal section which was thermal bridge ...

Good considering that we deviate on the domestic heat pipe, I suggest that we make it a specific subject ...

[aerialcastor]

Okay, well, I'm going to repeat myself again, I'm closer to once.

First we put ourselves in context

Our desire: that the radiation of our stove can pass through the slab to the floor. On the other hand we do not wish to open this slab to preserve the stage of the noise of the rdc.
Our question: what would be the ideal composition and mounting of the slab to allow the heat to climb and cross it for optimal comfort upstairs?

Other info a double flow VMC will also be installed

.

Rom wishes to be heated by radiation, and he is quite right it is the most comfortable mode of heating, certainly because it recalls the sensation of the Sun, and that convection heating (forced air among others) is a source of discomfort and therefore requires increasing the temperature (therefore the energy expenditure) for the same feeling of heat.

Then propose a forced air system:
-is incompatible with Rom's wish to be heated by radiation
-is redundant with VMC 2F
-not intended to fit on a PDM


So see my first message:

The best solution is a heavy slab, not insulated so no false ceiling, no parquet, no screed on insulation.
Thus the slab will absorb the radiation from the stove, and re-radiate upwards.
Obviously, it will not be reactive, but since the PDM is not essentially, it should not be a problem.

[dedeleco]

nor carpet no insulation to have the assembly of my grandparents' kid with a little warmth up over time !!

installs a hot air recovery and it will be resolved.

like home quickly heated !!
And the forced air is compatible with the double flow so well reflected scientifically, ask the stove manufacturer with a more open mind in its catalog than aerialcastor!
heating the house in addition to renewing the air with heat exchanger with this air forced around the air stove is scientifically logical.

otherwise for convection books to potash and calculate carefully:
A Heat Transfer Textbook
http://www.onlinefreeebooks.net/go.php? ... ttv124.pdf
or the different chapters of:
http://www.sft.asso.fr/document.php?pag ... roject=sft
(less detailed) and all the references and scientific papers in these books !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Aerialcastor forgot mixed convection according to the vocabulary of these books, real convection in the room and which multiplies by a serious factor, by 2 and more convection (locally forced) and which explains why my radiators at home heat me well with less surface !!
Fortunately, if the convection values ​​indicated by aerialcastor were true, I would be cold all winter at home with small radiators at 40 ° C and not at 70 ° C !!

[dedeleco]

recalls the feeling of the Sun,

the sun is at 6000 ° C fortunately far with UV in its dangerous radiation (sunburn and cancer) to the point that we must limit its exposure !!
So misleading commercial assertion that we find everywhere but scientifically false!
It is totally frightening how they repeat false claims like parrots deceiving people !!
The radiation is infrared !!
If you want the predominant true infrared radiation from the sun, without the UV from the sun, you must take a real infrared radiation radiator with red tube at 800 ° C for the bathroom in general and which radiates to it because at high temperature !!

True radiant radiator without convection (5% convection):

[aerialcastor]

It is hopeless...
The Sun heats by radiation, all types of radiant heating recalls the feeling of the Sun.


But if deleco says that no then it's no, we must not forget that it is he who has the knowledge is not the others who are only parrots

Besides, this has been noted in other threads:

stop talking about things you don't know! especially to say bullshit.

yeah, but that, dedeleco, he does not care, him, what he likes is pushing big screamers saying: it's Meeeerde, you are all cooonnns, you did not understand anything.
after, the details, it does not interest him.
we are getting to know him, the service troll.

a little modesty wouldn't hurt. you did not understand the regulation with "water law" and yet, you allow yourself to say that it is shit and that nothing beats an all or nothing regulator with hysteresis, those who know will appreciate and will have done an opinion of the character.

Come on, I'm not going to maintain the trolling, you're the specialist, but I'm watching you.

then I explain the trollian technique of dedeleco:

he balances great bullshit and his own certainties on all subjects, especially those he does not know and when it is noticed, he shouts insult and makes the offended by gently refocusing the debate ... until 'See you next time.

Then it would be good if you stopped insinuating that I am a salesperson because it has no interest, then because it is completely false.
Especially since I advocate houses without heating.
If you want to know my job it's leaves
As I suppose that you will not believe me, you will ask Christophe he has my coordinates, they agree.


I understood that you were just trying to contradict me either:
-using unrealistic solutions
- by taking incomplete, wrong and even often wrong assumptions


In any good troll you want to play con, and this game there you can only win so I forfeit.
I must have a great victory, thank you for your participation.