Improving the efficiency of a fireplace or stove

Heating, insulation, ventilation, VMC, cooling ... short thermal comfort. Insulation, wood energy, heat pumps but also electricity, gas or oil, VMC ... Help in choosing and implementation, problem solving, optimization, tips and tricks ...
david97240
I learn econologic
I learn econologic
posts: 21
Registration: 13/09/10, 00:56




by david97240 » 19/10/10, 00:06

do you think this system works with an oil stove?
0 x
tintin62
I discovered econologic
I discovered econologic
posts: 2
Registration: 09/06/09, 18:01




by tintin62 » 20/11/12, 08:42

Hello,
I have just consulted all the exchanges on an external air supply for a fireplace type fireplace or insert.

For me, the system to remember is to inject air around the fireplace (especially not in the fireplace), the cold air injected heats up and takes up volume which can put the house in overpressure when the arrival air is greater than or slightly lower than the air consumption by the chimney.
It is therefore necessary to calculate the average air consumption in quiet operation of the chimney and put a fan which sends this volume of air from the outside to the chimney (between the chimney flue and the mantle protection).
I did it and it works perfectly : Mrgreen:
0 x
User avatar
antoinet111
Grand Econologue
Grand Econologue
posts: 874
Registration: 19/02/06, 18:17
Location: 29 - Landivisiau
x 1




by antoinet111 » 20/11/12, 12:31

hi how did you calculate that and the air expansion?
0 x
I vote for the writing of concrete post and practicality.
Down the talkers and ceiling fans!
User avatar
chatelot16
Econologue expert
Econologue expert
posts: 6960
Registration: 11/11/07, 17:33
Location: Angouleme
x 264




by chatelot16 » 20/11/12, 13:17

tintin62 wrote:For me, the system to remember is to inject air around the fireplace (especially not in the fireplace)


and why not in the foyer too?

the fire works exactly the same as it is given indoor air at 20 ° C or cold air at -20 ° C ... so no need to let it suck in hot air

but the flow aspirated by a good hearth is quite low ... so not connecting it to cold air is not a big disaster

on the other hand the principle of VMC with almost compulsory suction in France is very bad: the suction mouths always at the top cause the hottest air to lose, and bring in unpleasant cold air

it is so much easier to ventilate by blowing hot air, and let the cold air out through low leaks

it is not necessarily good all year round: in periods when it is not heating, when the purpose of the VMV is to avoid humidity, vacuuming up is a good solution: it is therefore possible to change method depending on the season

the current unique method is bad
0 x
User avatar
hic
Grand Econologue
Grand Econologue
posts: 995
Registration: 04/04/08, 19:50
x 5




by hic » 20/11/12, 13:20

tintin62 wrote:Hello,
I have just consulted all the exchanges on an external air supply for a fireplace type fireplace or insert.

For me, the system to remember is to inject air around the fireplace (especially not in the fireplace), the cold air injected heats up and takes up volume which can put the house in overpressure when the arrival air is greater than or slightly lower than the air consumption by the chimney.
It is therefore necessary to calculate the average air consumption in quiet operation of the chimney and put a fan which sends this volume of air from the outside to the chimney (between the chimney flue and the mantle protection).
I did it and it works perfectly : Mrgreen:

Hi tintin62

Air expansion ???
you compare the difference in air expansion between
-20 ° expanded to more than 300 ° and. . .
+ 20 ° expanded to more than 300 °
in your opinion, is the difference minor or major?

The chimney creates its own depression
- with or without combustion.
0 x
"Let food be thy medicine and thy medicine be thy food" Hippocrates
"Everything has a price has no value" Nietzche
Torture for Dummies
Forbid to express the idea that the field is acceleration (magnetic and gravitational)
And you get your patent mental torture option executioner successfully
tintin62
I discovered econologic
I discovered econologic
posts: 2
Registration: 09/06/09, 18:01




by tintin62 » 20/11/12, 13:43

Hello,

Sorry to disappoint you but I have not done any calculation, I work a lot by listening to good advice on forums and entrepreneurs deemed competent, but no scientific calculations for me except to verify certain theories sometimes advanced on forums.
So in my case, I consider that I burn 1 to 2 kg of wood per hour, and that a kg of wood consumes 15 m3 of air (value high enough to keep a reserve on the fan to set up) this we gives 2 kg of wood x 15 m3 / kg or 30 m3 per hour, my fan pushes the air down on the side of the insert it delivers 40 m3 / h.
The results give me satisfaction but have in no case been verified by precise measurements or calculations.
It was simply thermometers and hygrometers placed in the different rooms that confirmed that this had improved the heat distribution (house insulated from the outside and very recent glazing).
An idle chimney keeps the house at a good temperature even at -10 ° C outside.
0 x
User avatar
chatelot16
Econologue expert
Econologue expert
posts: 6960
Registration: 11/11/07, 17:33
Location: Angouleme
x 264




by chatelot16 » 20/11/12, 14:16

I confirm that the air expansion is very low

the volume of the air is well proportional to the temperature: but absolute temerature: it is thus necessary to add 273 to pass in degree kelvin

going from 10 ° C to 30 ° C means going from 283 ° K to 303 ° K so a volume change of 1,0706

this variation in volume is sufficient for the warm air to be lighter and go up to the ceiling, but, above all, does not mean that the hot air takes up more space

my remark on the expansion does not question the usefulness of heating the cold air in contact with the fireplace

it is absurd to let cold air enter through the house leaks and freeze the occupants' buttocks until this cold air meets the heat source

since it is necessary to renew the air, bringing cold air directly against the heat source improves comfort
0 x
User avatar
fbedon
I understand econologic
I understand econologic
posts: 51
Registration: 17/03/07, 13:31
Location: GRENOBLE
x 2

What works well with me




by fbedon » 30/11/12, 22:28

Hello,
Bring fresh air from outside, yes, but as much to let it enter without leaking directly into the hearth, you thus avoid any influence of hoods drafts and other.

And if you have a sealed combustion air duct, place a motorized temperature controlled register in the hood, you will never have to worry about adjusting the draft again.

Even better, put in series with the register a small VMC fan, just to activate the draft during start-ups, the command must be temporary, find a mechanical delay 0-30min.

To distribute the hot air drawn from the hood use a large fan of 500m3 / h associated with silencers and an electronic variable control, beware of pressure drops, a diameter of about 200mm is not too much.
You can even consider going far enough as long as you isolate the sections that go into the attic or unheated rooms.

I have a few pictures of my installation here:
http://frederic.bedon.perso.neuf.fr/AIR_CHAUD/

If anyone wants more details, welcome!
Fred

Old house 200m2, moderately isolated, 6 people, Fondis Passion closed hearth, 22-23 ° C, Grenoble, 15 cubic meters per winter.
0 x

 


  • Similar topics
    Replies
    views
    Last message

Back to "Heating, insulation, ventilation, VMC, cooling ..."

Who is online ?

Users browsing this forum : Google Adsense [Bot] and 386 guests