Bistre formation in thermopoele pellet

[Kesle]

Hello,

I recently bought a house of 140m² equipped with a pellet thermopoele brand Edilkamin model Ural 18kW

The thermopoele is therefore connected to 5 radiators (1 in the basement, 1 living room, 2 hallway entrance, 1 room) on the 2 floor + 1 mezzanine rooms without direct heating. The hot water is managed by an electric water heater.

On this thermopoele I set the temperature of the water from 50 ° C to 80 ° C;

In the middle of winter it turns at 65-70 ° C 22h / 24h (temperature in the house about 19-20 ° C)
At this moment it turns to 50 ° C 14h / 24h (temperature in the house about 20-21 ° C)

The smoke extraction duct passes directly into the wall and goes up on 3m outdoors.

Since always I have a slight creation of bistre in the home but also in the smoke extraction ducts internal to the stove, indeed the swab of scrubbing tends to be very hard or even blocked hot.

635986Sanstitre1.jpg (42.02 KIO) Viewed 12402 times

I do not know if the photos are displayed

I have on my side to change the seal of the door which was cooked and I intend to put a seal between the window of the door of the stove and the door itself because I have today a day of 1mm and I think that it can bring an excessive draw ...

In advance thank you for your lights

[Did67]

When you say 50 °, is it the temperature of the water in the stove ???

I have a pellet boiler. Normally, a pellet boiler never drops below 60 °. If not, it forms condensations in the exchangers, which sign the death of the boiler by corrosion after a few years ...

So I do not understand how your stove can go down under 60 ° without risk.

If it can (stainless steel construction?), Then it is perfectly normal that the form of bistre! The bistre is the mixture of carbon particles that combustion produces with water, also produced by combustion, which condenses if the coldest part in contact with the fumes is below 60 °.

Is it you who set this setting?

What does the notice say?

[Did67]

I have on my side to change the seal of the door which was cooked and I intend to put a seal between the window of the door of the stove and the door itself because I have today a day of 1mm and I think that it can bring an excessive draw ...

Again, I do not know how this stove works. But on a boiler, the air flows are managed by fans. The "draft" is therefore controlled by the processors which manage the combustion.

At home, if I open the door, very quickly a sensor detects that there is danger and stop the boiler. Without a joint, she would be safe.

I think it is rather dangerous, the primary air being "pulsed" by a fan. The fireplace should be waterproof ... It seems to me.

[Kesle]

Hello Did67

Yes indeed I'm talking about the temperature of the water, this setting is accessible without going into the parameter of the stove is at the convenience of the user, I can put 50 80.

Knowing that the stove is safe if the water rises above 85 °

Regarding the seal of the window I changed last night and indeed the combustion seems better to do this and especially my window is much less dirty this morning and especially not black, the seal was present but very worn and in some places out of his housing which explains this day, for the security too it stops if I open the door of course but the loss due to the seal should be too weak.

I suppose air was drawn between the glass and the door, can be a reason for the creation of bistre?

I also have a doubt about the connection to the extraction of smoke in fact the ducts coming out are huge (probably 200mm) while the out of the stove is normally 80mm, 200mm in there probably insulation but I do not really know the size of the inner part of extraction.

Regarding the operation of the stove, it operates on 5 power (P1, P2 ....) that it manages automatically to maintain the required temperature (50 to 80 ° C of water) each of these power at "draft" parameters "not accessible by the user.

The fan of the lower part is used for extraction (red arrows on the sectional view), for the draw I do not know too much (orange arrows of the sectional view).

As for materials, I can not tell you for the heat exchanger but the stove is cast iron with ceramic insert here is there.

Here is a link that allows the download of the notice at the bottom of the page
http://www.delot-compagnie.com/poeles-a-granules-edilkamin-/61-ural-18-kw-thermo-poele-edilkamin.html

[Kesle]

My swab springs are still stuck in the flue pipe I support sticking by the bistre what to do?

[Did67]

1) This should be disassembled, no ???

2) Anyway, in my opinion, very bad sign. On my boiler, 10 years, never seen anything like it!

I only have "dust", related to the particles that settle. One cleaning per year. The rest of the time, the mechanisms shake the springs once a day, to keep the exchangers clean.

The bistre is a mixture (corrosive because acid) of these particles with water of condensation.

3) It is better to raise the temperature of the water beyond 60 °, to avoid these condensations, and regulate the flow (thermostatic valves?).

The same quantity of heat is transported either with little water at high temperature or with much water at a low temperature. Choose the first option for stove safety.

My boiler "sails" between 63 and 78 °. But the water in my circuits (heated floors) is between 25 and 40, depending on the outside temperature. That way, I have just the right temperature inside, without ever having any brown.

[Kesle]

Hello

Indeed it's bad sign what surprises me is that the swab was not blocked early in the season, the degradation was fast

I can disassemble the assembly for a mechanical sweeping of the interior of stove but I must purge the stove so I would do it by 1 month when I will have turned off the stove.

Regarding the temperature of the water I gave it to 60 ° since your first intervention, indeed I could even put 70 ° down my thermo valves (it is all always 5 / 5), pellet consumption does not should not change too much? The bistre should of itself go in part if there is no more condensation phenomenon?

In my opinion the stove is poorly connected to the doc they speak of an insulating duct 80 indoor with maximum height of 2m for the evacuation of fumes out of mine is 125cm 4m height! I could probably remove 1m from height by putting the hat to the tiles.

I'm seriously thinking of moving to a heat pump system to replace the stove ...

[Did67]

1) It remains to be seen if it is the bistre that blocks the springs or if it is rusty ...

2) Consumption depends mainly on the heat loss of the house (and its insulation) and the internal temperature that is fixed: it is the internal temperature difference / external temperature that scares away calories.

And whatever the settings, a "heating system", whatever, compensates for these losses. It is never a boiler, or a stove, or a heat pump that consumes. It is the house !

If he does not do it enough, we're cold.

If he does it too much, it's too hot.

But in any case, the temperature of the circuit will significantly influence the consumption.

A small flow rate x high circuit temperature or high flow rate x low circuit temperature carries the same amount of heat.

The circuit temp plays when it is outside the heated volume and is poorly insulated. That is not the case here.

So the influence is weak (it plays a little bit: a 60 ° heat exchanger "squeezes" combustion calories better than an 80 ° heat exchanger, which will send hotter fumes into the atmosphere).

3) The specifications of a duct are generally minimum, intended to ensure safety, by correct evacuation of fumes. I do not think that a greater length and especially a larger diameter influences the operation. Normally the air is pulsed and this is regulated by the "brain" of the stove ...

4) I would especially not go to the CAP. The investment is high. Electricity has not finished being the most expensive energy per kWh, given EdF's troubles to the right and left. Even if the government slows down, the increases will be inevitable. Or EdF will be bankrupt. This will accelerate when we will start to dismantle the old plants. At the end, it is the customer who pays. This is just my point of view, but I do not think I'm wrong. Finally, I do not exclude that the system collapses during peaks consumption that are the peaks of cold weather. Your stove you can turn it with a small group. Not a PAC!

I would strive to clean and optimize the setting of this stove ...

5) Are you sure of the quality of your pellets ??? If they are wetter than the norm, it favors condensations!

We can test them if you have a fairly accurate balance and a microwave.

[Did67]

they talk about an insulation conduit of 80 interior with maximum height of 2m for the evacuation of fumes ...

I do not see how, in the vast majority of cases, you can connect a stove like this. There is almost always more than 2 m above a stove, even when there is not a floor above!

This is incomprehensible to me!

[Kesle]

Hello,

The water circuit passes precisely in the lower insulation of the living room, below it is the uninsulated garage that's why I wonder about the overconsumption between 60 ° and 70 ° water

Regarding the spec of the stove pipe, it is explained in the documentation that I have linked, at least that's what I understood and I heard that a pipe too big or too long increases the "draft ", suddenly the fumes would be less well evacuated and therefore would lead to the creation of bistre in the duct and in the stove ... real false?

I reopened my swab ducts last night nothing seems rusty but I have a spring completely block without access without purging the stove unfortunately.

Regarding the pellet I can indeed do the test, I'm waiting for your explanations, I'll watch tonight the spec on the package but I take it to a pro wood.

Thank you for the time you spend for me;)