Heat storage

[netshaman]

Is it possible to be able to store the heat accumulated during the summer by a solar thermal panel in the ground simply by using a single radiator fins as large as possible and buries as deep as possible (2 minimum m)?
In doing so, it would be a good solution for deleting the heat exchanger and preventing overheating of the system.
Once the flask is at a good temperature, a valve switches the heat transfer liquid to the load shedding circuit.
The advantage would be that in the winter we could use this stored heat in the ground to heat ourselves at a lower cost!
So possible or not possible on our scale of self-builders?
Because I know that in Holland (I think) they use a similar system but passing pipes under the road tar.
On the other hand, I do not know how deep they store heat.
Besides, here is an article that speaks about it:

http://www.enerzine.com/14/5065+stockag ... ents+.html

Can we do the same at our scale or some constraints make the impossible thing and it would be a pity?

[bernardd]

It can be stored in water which facilitates heat exchange but limits temperatures in heat.

Otherwise the pebbles are very practical.

Have you seen that?

http://www.isentropic.co.uk/index.php?page=storage

They store both the cold and the hot.

[netshaman]

Good idea for pebbles!
Or refractory brick?
How much heat can we finally store with 1 m3 pebbles, sand, earth, refractory brick for example?
How is it calculated?

[bernardd]

It is the mass heat that is useful. But I would say that the ladle, it depends directly on the volume density compared to liquid water: the denser it is, the more it stores in the same volume.

[antoinet111]

a lot of things have been said here,
http://forums.futura-sciences.com/habit ... galet.html
https://www.econologie.com/forums/stockage-t ... t9567.html

for the amount of heat, that calculates, but first you must know where to find the source of heat.


for me it will be the veranda, solar panels in landfill and air sensors probably.

[netshaman]

Have an idea like this:

A 1 lead block 3 encloses in a waterproof box in which plunges a coil.
What about the thermal capacity of this device?
This block would be obtained by melting lead pellets around the coil which is copper, and therefore resists 500 ° C.

[bernardd]

I was thinking about that, but I did not dare to write it :-)

With phase change and more ...

But price can be an obstacle, and toxicity too.

[netshaman]

I was thinking about that, but I did not dare to write it :-)

With phase change and more ...

But price can be an obstacle, and toxicity too.

Even stronger and more toxic: replace lead with mercury arrghhh !!!

[dedeleco]

I repeat since the same question is asked again by burying a radiator !!
The heat diffuses like ink in a blotter from a source, like a pen pen !!
Molecules in diffusion move in all directions as much in one direction as in the opposite direction, by a walk at random, and therefore it is very slow !!
The diffusion distance believes as the square root of time !!
or the time to reach a place believes like the square of the distance !!!
http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mouvement_brownien
quantitative solutions all in time on (distance) squared :
http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conduction_thermique

Thus, the time for the heat (or cold) to spread in the earth or through an insulator or any body, is proportional to the square of this thickness !!

If in the earth, the heat or the cold puts about 1 day to occupy the volume with 20cm around the radiator, to occupy a thickness 10 times greater, is 2m, it will have the square 10x10 = 100 days and after 2 times more is 200 days it will have penetrated only 2xraccarré (2) = 2,8m !!

Thus the radiator as a Canadian well can not provide as cold or heat (summer or winter), on 100 days as the volume of heat or cold available on the volume of earth distant from one to three meters from the radiator of 1 m2, a few m3 earthen.

In a day, we have only 20cm, 0,2m3 approximately, for a radiator 1m2, very insufficient for a day and a house, at best a few hours.

For this reason it is necessary to bury full of such radiators (or pipes) in a volume of earth containing the heat or the cold which one will need, for the necessary time, arranging them with 50cm or 1m at most of the others !!
If undersized, the land can no longer supply, and the Canadian well becomes perfectly useless !!

For a summer day, it takes a few m3, but for a winter (200days), and for a house, it takes hundreds of m3, rather 500 to 1000m3, close to an Olympic pool.
It takes at least 1000m2 of ground with buried pipes between 3 and 4m of depth with hoses or radiators to 0,5 or 1 m of each other !!
We can take 250m2, with the land between 3 and 7m deep !!
If you can drill deep, you need a weaker but deeper surface.

Ask Christophe with his pseudo pool 70m3 in the basement, which is not enough for the winter, even heated 70 ° C in summer, !!!

It is an order of magnitude that can not be reduced much, on an ordinary house.

If the house is hyperinsulated, we need all the less that it consumes less.

The Japanese project with a very large isolated volume, it works on the day, to mop the peaks of under consumption and overcharging!
The energy stored in thermal is much more compact than hydraulic energy!
The energy stored in chemical (petroleum) is still much more compact !!

[chatelot16]

It is the mass heat that is useful. But I would say that the ladle, it depends directly on the volume density compared to liquid water: the denser it is, the more it stores in the same volume.

not at all ! the mass heat of the heavy materials is lower than that of the light materials: the result the voluminal heat is almost constant for most materials: the water is the best heat volume: in addition the water is liquid which facilitates the recovery of heat by simple pumping

alas a large volume of water is not enough it also needs good insulation: in small size adapted to a particular no hope to store the heat of the summer for the winters

in very big dimension it is more favorable: on the scale of a whole city ...

storing in the ground, there is the great mass, but there is no insulation: it is therefore necessary to heat the whole earth: this is what is already happening: the sun heats the soil all over the surface! and this heat is recoverable in winters: it's called (pseudo) geothermal: if everyone had a big geothermal heat pump we would eventually cool the ground!