Lateral infiltration or capillary lift?

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spiritdaemon
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Registration: 29/11/10, 22:36

Lateral infiltration or capillary lift?




by spiritdaemon » 30/11/10, 11:21

Hello everybody

This is the problem that currently affects me:
I bought an apartment (ground floor side street - on garage). We have humidity concerns.
I don't yet have a photo that speaks volumes and is clear enough to show you the damage, but that's what I know.
Stand-by construction in solid wall made up of old bricks, the facade is a rendering of "crushed pebbles" (a roofer told me that it was the same type as what is used for showers but larger).
We have spots that appear during rain, remain a few weeks and disappear afterwards, leaving only a halo on the internal ceiling.
I have no trace of saltpetre and the tasks are shared on + - all the surfaces of the wall with a little more water on the bottom.
Sometimes there are downright droplets.
We never had fungus or mold.
No piping passes at this location.
The facade faces east.
The facade was discolored over 2-3 years (from the time of purchase, where it was obviously repainted).
Trace of putty under paint present, micro crack visible when sticking to the facade ....
I know it's always complicated to determine, we intended to cover the facade with slates but we must be certain that the damage comes from it.
After 6 months of research, I wonder if it would not be capillary recovery? the garages are concreted on each side of the wall (always in brick standby), would it be possible that this accentuates the ascent? Raising the water by more than 2m?
We re-sealed the chimneys and plugged the biggest cracks with putty by cutting in order to widen.

I wanted to have a maximum of opinion, maybe someone having already had the experience?

By concluding finally on the fact that I find it incredible that after an expertise, through a real estate agent, I can still have such problems, which in addition, is happening in Belgium, country that makes us c **** for anything.

Thank you in advance to all.
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dedeleco
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by dedeleco » 30/11/10, 15:52

The humidity in the walls is complex and it is easy to go wrong, even with professionals and legal experts !!

Your description is not perfectly clear and it seems that you may have missed the real cause.

First a list of possible causes is useful:
0) the real capillary rises only 20 cm from the ground scientifically.
After higher, these are physically very different lifts by evaporation successive condensations in the cracks and pores of the wall as for rain, but in the wall, but which are not capillary and not very fast.
This type of ascent is very much ignored by specialists, while we all see the rain falling, by condensation of evaporated water before which is mounted very high in the form of vapor, which can occur in a warm wall below and cold up !!
There is also condensation on cold walls of indoor water vapor only from human respiration, baths and showers and from the kitchen.
This can be huge to simulate a flood, as I have already seen in my family!
Otherwise there is liquid water flow, rain, leak or flood underground.

It feels like there is a roof over your ceiling and to read you already a roof leak is possible, which can go unnoticed, even with the repaired chimney:
We re-sealed the chimneys and plugged the biggest cracks with putty by cutting in order to widen.

A small almost invisible crack (invisible cracked tile, because almost stuck as it happened to me on my roof which flooded heavily) may be enough to flood the entire interior of the roof which to read to you seems most likely.

So go up on the roof and look for the slightest crack and change the defective elements and a clogging is often very insufficient (on a tile or slate in particular, change rather !!)

The roof chimney junction after work leaks easily over time.
So either we redo everything (expensive) or we repair it with great care so that there remains no defect, which the pros refuse because there is always the risk of problems going unnoticed after many hours of detective work!

Give a lot more details, photos, because even on site you can be wrong, even experts, but at random you have a roof leak or roof wall junction as it appears with the rains up !!
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spiritdaemon
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by spiritdaemon » 30/11/10, 16:32

Above, there is another apartment with a mezzanine, no damage appearing at home.
The wall-to-roof connection seems to be good.
I think if it would be a tile, it should spread over a narrower width and especially affected the neighbor before my apartment.
(Sorry to have forgotten this important detail).
Thanks for your feedback.
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dedeleco
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by dedeleco » 30/11/10, 17:01

Give much, much more information, precise because we can not guess what you do not indicate !! and if we try like in the lottery, it's wrong !!
If you don't do this careful scientific analysis work for yourself, you risk paying for unnecessary repairs and never solving the problem, because most of the pros are there to get the most out of work and money, not to solve your difficult problem if you don't get down to it !!
Roof water can descend into the wall without affecting the neighbor above, if no luck, or leaky gutter, rim that collects rain on the wall and leaks, etc ........... ....................
Make sure it's not condensation which has the annoying tendency to occur in rainy weather with humid air in November and December!:!
So in my family it dripped like a leak and it was only condensation on a thermal bridge on the ceiling against the wall because with the bath shower 3 times a day, there was enough to condense whole tubs on the ceiling !!

Sure it is the scientific method of considering all the possibilities and of testing and cross-checking each, to avoid all too fast and false certainty, and not that a vague impression !!
Often pros like us all have too quick a judgment !!
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aerialcastor
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by aerialcastor » 30/11/10, 17:38

First thing to do a sectional diagram with the street, the apartment, the garages, the spots.

Then you have to know all the materials used. Including complete composition of the wall, the floor of the apartment, and the coating of the floor.

Photos would also have come.


Do tasks appear only when it rains?
And always in the same place? * When it rains?

If yes, the most likely is that there are cracks in the exterior plaster and that the water squeezes in until it crosses the wall.


Do the tasks appear in summer?
If so, we can rule out the phenomenon of condensation with almost certainty.
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spiritdaemon
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Registration: 29/11/10, 22:36

Sketch suite




by spiritdaemon » 30/11/10, 18:21

-Always appears in the same place.
-Even in summer (when it rains!)
-Even when the apartment is unoccupied (no bath, pasta or other)
-Impression that when the facade is exposed to the sun, water comes out +.
- Old house, it ventilates under the false ceiling (origin: roof I think, one more thing to settle later).
- Photo 3 represents an exterior wall on the left and an interior wall on the right. A chimney watch behind, a crack on the facade at the top. (I will send a photo later)
- I send the photos on server (others will come but I don't have them currently):
-> Sketch
Image
-> Photo 1
Image
HD: http://img525.imageshack.us/img525/2772/p1000480d.jpg
-> Photo 2
Image
-> Photo 3
Image
HD: http://img232.imageshack.us/img232/496/p10004870.jpg

-> Facade 1
HD: http://img262.imageshack.us/img262/2370/p10004920.jpg
-> Detail facade
HD: http://img153.imageshack.us/img153/1135/p10004940.jpg

Thank you for your insightful and quick answers;) to enlighten me on this headache.
Last edited by spiritdaemon the 03 / 12 / 10, 21: 05, 1 edited once.
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aerialcastor
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by aerialcastor » 30/11/10, 19:17

Indeed it wets ...

How high is the street?
Are there stains in garages?
You have not answered on the composition of the wall, in fact I would especially like to know if there is a double or if it is just coated.


But seen from here I look for the infiltration of rainwater through the walls.
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Save a tree, eat a beaver.

It is no use to succeed in life, what it takes is to miss his death.
spiritdaemon
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Registration: 29/11/10, 22:36




by spiritdaemon » 30/11/10, 20:17

at the level of the photos 2m50 + -, the next room (extension of the wall) 2m.
Spots are present in garages, round and in places.
The walls of the garages are brick too, covered on each side with a painted "concrete" or "cement", suddenly a little afraid that it goes up from below ...
Garages and cellars are ventilated however.
The wall is full, red bricks, the plaster is on the bricks.
On the inside, a concrete slab I think and light plastering ceilings.
There are also capillary lifts in other places, there, presence of white spots ... but it remains quite limited and above all another subject.
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dedeleco
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by dedeleco » 30/11/10, 20:31

It's detective work, the slightest clue counts !!
So what is the wall? give everything, otherwise we will miss.

Exterior photos, larger photo of the rooms with the wall that seems to wet on the floor and in a corner of the wall.
path followed by water when it appears ??

The neighbor above with another wall covering (or thermal insulation ??) may not realize it ??? See if he doesn't have a wall covering that protects against humidity and mask ???

Does the condensation seem to be eliminated given what you say?
Impression that when the facade is exposed to the sun, water comes out +.

Weird water evaporates and should stay shorter, unlessit condenses inside the wall colder in summer than the surface in the sun ???? ??
How long does the humidity stay after the rain?
How long does it take to appear after the rain started ??
Does the direction of the wind matter, the force of the rain?
The smallest detail is important !! because they have to overlap.

On an old house the cracks can let the water pass, but what is serious is that humidity destroys a house 10 to 100 times faster: rot of the wooden floors puffed up by the merule (I saw a house in danger as well !!) and collapse in time !!
So do not continue and remove the humidity !!


A test is to water with a jet of water each crack alone outside and see if the water arrives (with a lot of hours between each watering to let the water come and go)

These may be the cracks in the wall.
House watch, it ventilates under the false ceiling (origin: roof I think, one more thing to settle later).

It can be this pipe which ventilates air which lets water in because it is poorly closed on the roof !!
So go on the roof, look at all the faults and also water to see if the water comes in ??

Capillary rise does not exceed 20 to 25 cm above the water. Otherwise, it is not capillary, it is repeated condensing evaporations with temperature differences necessary to maintain them !!

Apparently you do not have thermal insulation, you must not be hot, seen the cold ??
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spiritdaemon
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Registration: 29/11/10, 22:36




by spiritdaemon » 30/11/10, 21:06

-The wall is in red bricks (35-40cm), exterior plaster, interior plastering. (I'm not a pro for the names of the materials)

-The ext photo is coming, I'm not there yet :(

-The neighbor does not know especially what it is with its coating, the plastering ceiling has been redone, that said, apartment in mezzanine in the tip of the roof. Suddenly, it has little surface in facade compared to me. I tell myself that if there is an infiltration, the time that the water takes to pass 40cm, it will come down to my house.

-The roof is tiled without any apparent hole (first check that we made), watch under the roof, the wind passes between the tiles.

-It disappears over 2 weeks, it all depends on the intensity of the rain, yes, a difference in heavy or less heavy rain. This remains difficult to judge. After a rain, the water takes about 1 day before the wall "wet".

-Heat level, it's not the best but we get to 20 °. The worst part is when the wall is wet.

EDIT: Editing of the post with the photos, you will find the photos of the facades after the others (direct links)

Thank you all for your help
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