anti-renewables heat pump? Disadvantages and advantages

[Ahmed]

These details on the performance of the latest heat pumps are interesting: the ones I mentioned in my last message are at least 4 to 5 years old ...
However, since we are talking about technical evolution, with properly insulated houses, I think that gas factories are completely unthinkable since it is possible to reduce the needs in considerable proportions; well, i'm not sure that this is still perfectly in point from all points of view, but progress is possible, even without resorting to sophisticated technologies which are probably not the right way * ...

* Because, on the one hand we only move the gas plant and on the other hand the construction and maintenance costs make it only a solution with limited distribution.

[Bardal]

I don't like "gas factories" either, especially in a new house that is properly designed and built. that said, even the best-built rt2012, or passive, houses will need additional heating ... A quick table corner calculation shows that such a house, of around one hundred m2, can be satisfied with 'a central heating point of a few kW (2 or 3); a latest generation 3 kW air-to-air cap costs a thousand euros and can be installed in half a day; it will spend a hundred euros over the season (even taking into account the 10 or 20 € that the summer air conditioning could cost) and its maintenance will be reduced to an annual dusting. we are far from a complex and expensive installation.

The only possible competition would be a pellet stove, for those who absolutely stick to wood, but it will be a little more expensive, in installation as in annual consumption and maintenance.

[chatelot16]

generators with cogeneration is much easier ... there is no technical problem to build the equipment ... the only thing missing is that edf buys the electricity produced at a normal rate without any costs d prohibitive installation ... there is especially no need for subsidized purchase price as for photovoltaics ... a purchase price simply a little lower than the sale price, because any merchant needs a margin ...

authorities.
That's the theory, but it would be interesting if you could give us an idea of ​​the electricity purchase price that would be necessary using a small numerical example.

Ah, no answer .... Yet Chatelot16 came back that way, sorry for wanting to call you again following a "rather easy" statement.

Any table corner calculation shows that individual gas or fuel oil cogeneration would require an electricity purchase tariff "in full" a tariff of at least 150 and more certainly of 200 € / MWh to be "profitable ", ie around 4 to 5 times the current price of electricity (energy share).

I am ready to contribute by my invoice and its CSPE share to the development of wind and PV at less than € 100 / MWh, not to the development of fuel oil or gas at 200 .....

But I take different figures if they can be argued.

it takes a while to respond seriously

of course the idea of ​​cogeneration is only theoretical as long as the means to do so are not readily available ... and as long as EDF (or another company) does not simply buy small electrical production, no profitability is possible therefore no manufacturer makes anything

I have used many generator: they are optimized to be light, and not optimized for long life and ease of maintenance

edf operates petroleum coal or gas power stations in places where the heat is completely lost ... distributing part of this production where heating is useful would be positive for overall efficiency ... but that remains only theoretical until all the links in the chain are available

there is a great complementarity between cogeneration and heat pump ... some can choose the heat pump to have the simplest solution without transporting fuel ... others can choose cogeneration and produce electricity when there is a need for heat ... so at the right time to power other people's heat pumps

cogeneration is more easily profitable in large power, rather for factory or collective housing ... it already exists in other countries ... but in France the heaviness and the costs to sell the electricity kill the idea

cogeneration pays for itself even better when we need emergency power: we make the equipment doubly profitable: heating and autonomy in the event of an EDF failure ... except that EDF prohibits true autonomous alternators, and requires just asynchronous alternators capable of '' inject into the network but unable to serve as backup power

the energy transition needs a change of regulations to allow going in the right direction ... useless that France wants to teach the whole world and continues with regulations that prohibit the right solution

[sicetaitsimple]

authorities.
That's the theory, but it would be interesting if you could give us an idea of ​​the electricity purchase price that would be necessary using a small numerical example.

Ah, no answer .... Yet Chatelot16 came back that way, sorry for wanting to call you again following a "rather easy" statement.

Any table corner calculation shows that individual gas or fuel oil cogeneration would require an electricity purchase tariff "in full" a tariff of at least 150 and more certainly of 200 € / MWh to be "profitable ", ie around 4 to 5 times the current price of electricity (energy share).

I am ready to contribute by my invoice and its CSPE share to the development of wind and PV at less than € 100 / MWh, not to the development of fuel oil or gas at 200 .....

But I take different figures if they can be argued.

it takes a while to respond seriously

...................................

OK, these are the usual arguments in favor of cogeneration.

But that is not the question: you can remove all the technical and legal obstacles which according to you "block" the system, the fact remains that a MWhel produced in an individual fuel or gas cogeneration should be bought "with the ladle" "150 to 200 € / MWhel for the scheme to be" profitable ", at least to cover the fuel costs that can reasonably be allocated to electricity production.

No way .....

[BaudouinLabrique]

Hello everybody

I will probably surprise Christophe and a few others!

I must first say that I am low in French-speaking Belgium (Wallonia) and that it is probably for this reason that what I achieved could finally be done: think, have been able since 2012 to transform my building old (over 50 years of age - 250m²) in positive energy housing (electricity, heating and water):
- with little insulation costs (less than 75 € / m²
- by combining photovoltaic production and geothermal heat pump (horizontal collectors)
- all AMORTI in less than 6 years (certainly in French-speaking Belgium we benefit
a) the counter system which turns backwards (what we inject when we overproduce we recover it when we by-product)
b) the granting of green certificates in relation to the volume of annual production

Details of the realization: http://www.retrouversonnord.be/dossier_H2Net.doc

I am carrying out a project to switch to ofgrid (no longer depend on the network) thanks to hydrogen
cf. the topic The hydrogen house