I lower my bills: special coolant

[Alfa-x]

Re,

I will check on the site but these data amaze me, these are the data of a standard 2 bedroom apartment not of an average detached house.

I was wrong, the site is actually talking about an apartment of 100 m2, 100 liters of liquid, and 40 liters of product (instead of 40 liters of water, of course).

*** Thank you ***

You tell me you have a pellet boiler, clear that they have a huge water capacity. Strongly discouraged here ... too long to amortize but that's another debate.

Another debate indeed, but know anyway that a latest generation pellet boiler has a low water capacity (from 30 to 40 liters), and that in terms of depreciation, I have already paid half installation with the savings made since switching from fuel oil to pellets 5 years ago. Not bad is not it ?


And precisely, it turns out that I know my pellet consoles perfectly, as well for heating (so variable depending on the winters), as for DHW. So I will be an ideal case for testing this product, don't you think? I invite the new Swiss importer to offer me a filling with this product against a return with precise measurements in real conditions, and the use of this data for its advertising.

Chiche?

A+

*** I agree with you, if your boiler is more than 5 years old, you could have amortized a good part of it by the economy.
Today is no longer the same. Pellet is sold here on average at € 0,35 per kg, fuel oil is now € 0,83 per liter, but what the sellers of pellets never say is that it takes TWO KILOS of pellet to have the same calorific value as ONE liter of fuel oil, which brings the ratio to 13 cents of profit / liter of fuel oil.
A good boiler installed costs here between 12.000 and 15.000 € (there are quotes published on the internet). Calculate the amortization time yourself ... not to mention that the pellets are often imported from Canada ... well done for the carbon footprint.

And I'm not talking about the radiators that would have to be changed for the pellet installation to be 100% profitable ...


Thank you for your proposal but we already have, in Belgium at least, a program of witness users who heat themselves via a gas boiler. There we have accurate readings in the month the month and last year, while we heated harder and 55 days more on average, they reached 26% savings on average.

[BobFuck]

According to the doc, one of the effects of the product is precisely due to the fact that its specific heat is lower than that of water. I paraphrase the doc:

- when the boiler is not running, the entire volume of water in the boiler, pipes, etc. cools, and this heat is lost.
- by reducing the specific heat, we therefore reduce these losses.

With me the whole heating installation is in the heated volume (water / water heat pump, pipes ...) so the losses heat the house (no need to insulate the pipes ...) so there is in fact no losses. I assume that in this case the product would not have the desired effect ...

On the other hand if you just want to decrease the specific heat, adding glycol does it very well ...

[Alfa-x]

With me the whole heating installation is in the heated volume (water / water heat pump, pipes ...) so the losses heat the house (no need to insulate the pipes ...) so there is in fact no losses. I assume that in this case the product would not have the desired effect ...

On the other hand if you just want to decrease the mass heat, adding glycol does it very well ... [/ quote]

At home ... for these losses there may actually be that the effect will be reduced but not the other effects of the product.

Go ahead, add glycol to your installation but still pay attention to corrosion.

http://etheve.free.fr/glycol.htm

Studies have shown that X-En is not corrosive and that there is no loss of efficacy after 18 years. (accelerated test).

[BobFuck]

I don't have a glycol, I'm running on water.

So, knowing that there is no loss of the heating system to the outside (water / water heat pump, no chimney, the entire installation in the heated space, etc.) I wonder what "other effects" could happen...

On an old rotten installation with heating pipes outside the heated space (conventionally in the garage full of drafts from the pavilions of the 60s and 70s), why not. But personally, I would start by completely isolating the pipes ...

[Alfa-x]

[quote = "BobFuck"] I have no glycol, I run on water.

So, knowing that there is no loss of the heating system to the outside (water / water heat pump, no chimney, the entire installation in the heated space, etc.) I wonder what "other effects" could happen...

You were the one talking about injecting glycol ...

Have you read the docs uploaded to the site https://www.econologie.info/share/partag ... ZFUERr.pdf et https://www.econologie.info/share/partag ... OnXw78.pdf)?

They answer your questions.

[tomgey]

Today is no longer the same. Pellet is sold here on average at € 0,35 per kg, fuel oil is now € 0,83 per liter, but what the sellers of pellets never say is that it takes TWO KILOS of pellet to have the same calorific value as ONE liter of fuel oil, which brings the ratio to 13 cents of profit / liter of fuel oil.

€ 0,35 per kilo of pellets? I do not know where you live in Belgium, but you did not look closely I think.
I live on the Belgian border and I supplied myself for a time in Belgium in loose granules (Maison Henneton to be precise, without wanting to advertise) before a circuit is set up near my home, and I can make sure that in bulk the prices are the same as in France or even lower, around € 250 per tonne currently delivered.

Now you have to compare comparable things: if you want to compare the fuel oil delivered by tanker truck, you have to compare it to pellets delivered in bulk, or at least in pallets or big bags.
If you want to compare it with bags of pellets bought in supermarkets, you have to do it with 7,5L oil cans also bought in supermarkets. I know, it's harder to find!

[Alfa-x]

Today is no longer the same. Pellet is sold here on average at € 0,35 per kg, fuel oil is now € 0,83 per liter, but what the sellers of pellets never say is that it takes TWO KILOS of pellet to have the same calorific value as ONE liter of fuel oil, which brings the ratio to 13 cents of profit / liter of fuel oil.

€ 0,35 per kilo of pellets? I do not know where you live in Belgium, but you did not look closely I think.
I live on the Belgian border and I supplied myself for a time in Belgium in loose granules (Maison Henneton to be precise, without wanting to advertise) before a circuit is set up near my home, and I can make sure that in bulk the prices are the same as in France or even lower, around € 250 per tonne currently delivered.

Now you have to compare comparable things: if you want to compare the fuel oil delivered by tanker truck, you have to compare it to pellets delivered in bulk, or at least in pallets or big bags.
If you want to compare it with bags of pellets bought in supermarkets, you have to do it with 7,5L oil cans also bought in supermarkets. I know, it's harder to find!

Ok you are right, here is a random price on the net right now: http://www.michelpetit.be/fr/tarifs-pellets. Or € 0,30 per kg for less than 2 tonnes, which is the capacity of the majority of people (storage). This brings us back to 23 cents profit at the current price (which goes up ... but the oil as well as there it goes down). But either, let's even take 50 CENTS of profit and a boiler at 10.000 € (low end) and make the report.

I do not criticize, I simply observe.

[BobFuck]

Have you read the docs uploaded to the site https://www.econologie.info/share/partag ... ZFUERr.pdf et https://www.econologie.info/share/partag ... OnXw78.pdf)?

They answer your questions.

Exactly, not so much, except that:

- it scrubs

OK, why not, but where does the dirt go?

- lower surface tension so it sticks better inside the radiators

I have a doubt

- and lower thermal capacity

Subject of my previous messages, I am still waiting for an explanation ...


On the other hand, if the lower thermal capacity is an advantage, what is the use of phase change pseudo-materials?


And also, there is the price, around 40 € per liter.

Either we have an innovation that justifies this price, and then we have a patent. We can see it ?

Otherwise, we can assume that from the moment the price is theft, there is no reason that the product works ...

[Alfa-x]

Have you read the docs uploaded to the site https://www.econologie.info/share/partag ... ZFUERr.pdf et https://www.econologie.info/share/partag ... OnXw78.pdf)?

They answer your questions.

Exactly, not so much, except that:

- it scrubs

OK, why not, but where does the dirt go?


**** It remains in suspension, which in no way affects the proper functioning of the installation.

- lower surface tension so it sticks better inside the radiators

I have a doubt

**** Well, the photos are not faked eh.

- and lower thermal capacity

*** Less energy but to achieve the same result.

Subject of my previous messages, I am still waiting for an explanation ...

*** One of our engineers read the interventions last night, I imagine he will intervene as soon as he has the time.


On the other hand, if the lower thermal capacity is an advantage, what is the use of phase change pseudo-materials?

*** To restore the energy stored during the phase change. What goes one way also goes the other.


And also, there is the price, around 40 € per liter.

*** Ah yes ? Where have you been looking for ??? We are far from it ...

Either we have an innovation that justifies this price, and then we have a patent. We can see it ?

*** X-Energy does have a patent, it is filed, registered etc but no you will not be able to see it.
Note that even I have never seen it and none of us know the precise composition of the product.
Secret, very legitimate, of manufacture.

[Alain G]

Hello!

I want to believe in the miracle but you would not have the temperature of the gases leaving the chimney before and after because the only way to recover more calories is to extract more and inevitably there will be less in the chimney!

I reduced my consumption by + - 30% on my hot air furnace by reducing the jet under the manufacturer's recommendation but not without consequence on premature wear by the rusting of the hearth by excessive condensation.

So data on the exit gases please!