How to combine ductable pellet stove and CES Rotex?

[fabio.gel]

Hello
Having bought a small wooden house from 1950, I want to invest in a ravelli ecoteck pellet stove + a rotex solaris.
The house is a timber frame house with a living area of ​​72 m².
Initially my idea was to associate a ductable pellet stove

http://www.ecoteck.it/french/mostra_scheda.php?chiave=1zjARLgcl8


with a thermodynamic balloon equipped with a VMC

http://www.aldes.fr/pro2009/upload/documents/VC100811_T.Flow_doctechnique.pdf

But I am very much in favor of solar water heaters and after much research and visit to different shows the Rotex Solaris system really caught my attention in relation to its operating system.

http://fr.rotex-heating.com/produits/ballon-decs.html

But how do you combine the two?
I was thinking of an air / water exchanger which would make the connection between the balloon and the pellet stove and which would add the missing calories in winter.

If you have other ideas

Fabio

[dedeleco]

Your house is small, made of wood, fairly well insulated I suppose, so you don't need much energy, so don't invest too much, and therefore your pellet stove is temperature regulated and will heat only if necessary, in principle, if you heat by another simplistic means, such as hot air coming from a solar air collector or bay window.

Otherwise if you look on econology, you will see that I have a fad, an admiration for the storage of heat underground, even summer solar heat for winter as realized and functional for years at:
https://www.econologie.info/share/partag ... mrk29Z.pdf
internet address closed on May 22, 2011
http://www.dlsc.ca

and you can store it for a few days in the earth, without a container very easily instead of a balloon, taking advantage of the slow diffusion of the heat, provided you change your mentality a little !!

Personally, given the quantity of plants that I see wasted around me, in 2 places 900Km away, I am a supporter and user of a stove or insert burning this wood and free plants abandoned everywhere, even by neighbors who smoke me for days by burning them in the open air for days !!
Also, I think you have the same situation in Calvados, and instead of paying for pellets, I invite you to burn this free wood (pruning, branches, etc.) in a stove (or mass stove) as I do in larger houses, with insert and circulator of hot air distributed.
I haven't managed in 11 years to use up the abandoned free woods blown down by the storm of late 1999 around my home, before it rots.

A small house like yours, moreover made of wood, is very easily heated as well, for free !!
you can have a simple pellet stove and also a stove or insert, even cheaper, to burn wood and free plants lying around.
Solar in addition, even simplistic and cheap air, can be used to supplement.


Your thermodynamic balloon is a heat pump, I don't know its price, but its lifespan is much more limited, with maintenance, etc.
I was fooled by a heat pump 9 years ago, only to discover 3 years later that it was no longer manufactured, during a repair (love at first sight on the house) and to have the miracle of one remaining in stock, and 7 years later to learn that it is totally irreparable if it breaks down, and that you have to buy a brand new one !!
So given that the current fashion for heat pump and nuclear behind (and its disasters certain in France sooner or later), changes like a weather vane, with the standards, I would never buy a heat pump !!
And I do not recommend this type of gear to gain only 15 to 30% !!
Indeed you risk that the spare parts become impossible to find in less than 10 years, standards, bankruptcy, or takeover of the company which disappears !!
It is very difficult not to get partially ripped off, even warned, as I see on me and my sons !!
It is better to heat the water with a stove (pellets, single or mass, with free wood that swarms around my home) and simple solar thermal in summer.
see concrete on econology and:
http://www.apper-solaire.org/?Pratique

[dedeleco]

Since dlsc.ca stopped on the internet yesterday, the pdf brochure summarized on this very remarkable renewable achievement is put on econology:

https://www.econologie.info/share/partag ... mrk29Z.pdf

[fabio.gel]

Thank you dedeleco

For this feedback, I have thought about installing a wood stove at home but it is true that the comfort of the pellet stove with regard to thermal regulation in the home, I have not found better.
A mass stove at home is not viable otherwise, given the wooden floor, we will find it in the basement

And as you say the house is not big and will be very well insulated (it is true that I much prefer to push the insulation rather than the knob of the radiator ) so the heating power must not exceed 8Kw and I am still a little afraid that with a wood stove it will be extremely hot

Your idea of ​​storing energy in summer to restore it in winter is technically daring, has someone done a little photo report on their installation, it must be super interesting to see?

Thanks again for your info

[dedeleco]

It is not my idea, but what I admire because without CO2, perpetual without nuclear, already carried out elsewhere!
A presentation with photos of the realization:
http://coppercanada.ca/pdfs/CCMagazinePDFs/E155D.PDF

Read all the posts on econology with the objections, because on the internet there is almost only Drake Landing solar comunity which has done it correctly, and therefore it is better to do it gradually, in addition to another heating so as not to have an unexpected problem too annoying for the heating, nor lose money.
The site www.dlsc.ca disappeared yesterday !!
The brochure in French is on econology:
https://www.econologie.info/share/partag ... mrk29Z.pdf

It has solar thermal panels which heat a sufficiently large Canadian well in summer.

So a first step is to mount solar panels for hot water even in winter, classic, with summer, spring or autumn overheating, sent in summer underground in a preliminary form of Canadian well, to measure how the heat is retained, and whether it leaves faster than by diffusion, by a flow of groundwater.

The regulation of T is not a very big problem, if we accept some degrees of variation, if you have a certain thermal inertia, for example with tiles.
8Kw is useful for extreme cold, not very common in Calvados, for your small, well-insulated house.
A pellet stove generally modulates between 1/3 and 1 of its maximum power.
If you have free vegetables like me, you can have a tiny stove even less powerful that quietly burns this waste when dry in the sun, plugged in than when the pellet stove is stopped?
At lower power, solar heating may be sufficient, first with the bay windows, and with solar collectors, in total, the heat of which with good sun can be stored underground for a short period at shallow depth, in a small volume of heat stored, just for a few days without sun in not cold weather without a stove.

This can make it possible to test underground storage on a small scale, barely larger than with a classic balloon (a few m3 of earth instead of a balloon !!) instead of 1000m3 to keep the summer heat for winter.

I believe that progressive testing from an acceptable system is the best way to avoid mistakes, learn and choose well without spending too much.

The main difficulty is to drill the holes to circulate the heat underground, with an exchanger fluid.
Depending on the hardness of the soil and its nature, the methods are different.
For tests at 1 or 2m, masons sometimes have drills with a drill extension which are a solution.
In fairly soft clay, you can pierce with a tube and a water pump.
read all the posts of this forum with ideas:
https://www.econologie.com/forums/post162211.html#162211

With longer extensions, you can drill deeper.
also read the theses or texts on this subject and the texts on econology or google: borehole thermal storage:

http://www.nottenergy.com/files/thermal_stores.pdf
http://lup.lub.lu.se/luur/download?func ... Id=1479064

http://www.mdpi.com/2071-1050/1/1/55/pdf

http://faculty.washington.edu/malte/pub ... Thesis.pdf

also this deserving achievement with photovoltaic heat pump which did not understand the diffusion of heat as he notes:
http://chargingtheearth.blogspot.com/p/borehole.html
http://chargingtheearth.blogspot.com/20 ... ehole.html

A list of possibilities:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seasonal_thermal_store
nothing in French on wikipedia.
http://www.google.fr/search?client=fire ... =&aql=&oq=
http://www.google.fr/search?client=fire ... =&aql=&oq=
Most use a heat pump, which is not necessary if well designed, because the heat received over a year is much greater than the heating needs, with the solar card:.
https://www.econologie.com/forums/post203418.html#203418.

But it is a question of technical research by seeking to make it simple, inexpensive and efficient!

It is a pity, given the simplicity, and the interest without CO2, pollution, or nuclear power, that nothing in France is devoted to this research apart from DIY enthusiasts.

[fabio.gel]

Hello
Below is the principle diagram of my installation.



For the interchange I think of this element

http://www.echangeur-geothermique.de/Echangeur-de-chaleur-CWK.pdf

in picture



At the outlet of the stove the temperature of the air does not exceed 30 ° C, I wonder if I would need an expansion vessel?

[dedeleco]

For more tranquility, search on econology the possible problems encountered by others, on the solar one.

Also check that the temperature leaving the ducted pellet stove is high enough around 80 ° C to properly heat the water in the sanicube through two exchangers.
Often these pellet stoves are used to heat rooms and the air comes out around 30 ° to 40 ° C so as not to burn with a good flow rate, which does not allow water to be heated to 60 ° C (80 ° C before exchangers ).
At least have an adjustable air flow to increase T ??

[fabio.gel]

For more tranquility, search on econology the possible problems encountered by others, on the solar one.

Also check that the temperature leaving the ducted pellet stove is high enough around 80 ° C to properly heat the water in the sanicube through two exchangers.
Often these pellet stoves are used to heat rooms and the air comes out around 30 ° to 40 ° C so as not to burn with a good flow rate, which does not allow water to be heated to 60 ° C (80 ° C before exchangers ).
At least have an adjustable air flow to increase T ??

At the manufacturer MCZ the output is at 60 ° C on the other hand I'm not screwed to find the info at Ecoteck-Ravelli for the Anna stove

http://www.flam-expo.com/uploads/sfBossExhibitor/release/56213CP_MCZ_po%C3%AAles_pellet2011_fr.pdf

I will write directly to Ecoteck, I might have the answer

[Philippe Schutt]

Ecoteak Anna:
The front outlet is hot but the rear outlet is not, because the air is expelled before passing over the top of the fireplace.
I think it is better to plate copper tubes or better a plate directly on the heating body. it should be possible to take it off when the water is at temperature.