Heat transfer firebrick and air?

Heating, insulation, ventilation, VMC, cooling ... short thermal comfort. Insulation, wood energy, heat pumps but also electricity, gas or oil, VMC ... Help in choosing and implementation, problem solving, optimization, tips and tricks ...
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Obamot
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by Obamot » 29/03/12, 16:55

clasou wrote:Hello, always looking for friends.
So for Obamot, do you have a mass stove or a rocket stove, because the
apart from trying to scratch the back of dedeleco I don't see.
Cheap, does not mean ineffective, for info the idea of ​​the rocket stove is to make a means of heating for the cheapest possible.

There are some in Canada, as it only cost time and passion.

Because there I agree, with dedeleco the earth the stone can be useful the question is to know what you are looking for and how you are looking for, taking into account the different constraints, place and other.
On the other hand no agreement on the fact of leaving scientific explanations all the time, because it is last not nothing invented, just explained phenomena which I recognize it allows to artificially make a replica.

So, and if you were going to read the link and file that there is on futura, because the there has to learn, of the lived.
But not sure that this is your goal.
a + claude


No, I was just saying that coming from him we ended up doubting everything he said. And now that you say it, I think you have good reason to think so. Agree that these are not necessarily so-called “economic” solutions which must be worse than others. Since precisely in the building industry we seek both: cheap AND efficient (but not just anyhow and anything, to announce first truths which turn out completely "to the west" later .... tsss don't make me say what i didn't say ...).

I was speaking in a general way, that we must be careful not to think a contrario that economic solutions would necessarily be the panacea ... It is case by case => CALCULATED, while he has an unfortunate tendency to generalize and to deviate from its area of ​​competence.

For my part, nothing personal about it. When he is correct, I always am. When it slips, someone needs to guide it, otherwise hop! He goes into the ditch. His stories, it’s about him, it’s just not my problem
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dedeleco
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by dedeleco » 29/03/12, 17:00

Obamot slips every time with perfect vacuum !!
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clasou
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by clasou » 29/03/12, 17:02

Hello Obamot,
All of you are relative.
Otherwise from memory too, the just middle, did not make a mass stove, but just added a mass around a hot spot, to increase the diffusion time.
What is not all did the same.
But hey if he reads this passage he will be able to say what it is.
a + claude
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dedeleco
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by dedeleco » 29/03/12, 17:06

clasou wrote:.
As for the wind turbine, and what about nuclear power.
a + claude


With nuclear, on econology, fortunately that nobody tinkers with its nuclear, like its wind turbine, because the whole neighborhood would have died, ten times, of tests without understanding !!!

TEPCO, tinkering with it in a hurry as well as AREVA with absent subscribers and it's horrible !!

https://www.econologie.com/forums/post228658.html#228658
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by dedeleco » 29/03/12, 17:18

clasou wrote:Hello Obamot,
All of you are relative.
Otherwise from memory too, the just middle, did not make a mass stove, but just added a mass around a hot spot, to increase the diffusion time.
What is not all did the same.
But hey if he reads this passage he will be able to say what it is.
a + claude


If well designed, it's the same if the storage is warm enough in a large mass of at least a ton, apart from the aesthetic aspect !!
A mass stove stores via an exchanger, which is also done in the middle. !!
There is an armada of possible forms of mass air exchangers.

Avoid making a salad between diffusion, exchanger, convection, etc ... because you will crash !!

In a good configuration, (5 to 10 cm thick), limitation by diffusion is avoided which prevents storage in the mass.
Convection is not a diffusion, but a propagation by a spontaneous wind by thermodensity.
If you have not understood these physical bases, you will crash, or copy without understanding anything and crash, if you modify without understanding.
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Obamot
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by Obamot » 29/03/12, 18:10

clasou wrote:Hello Obamot,
All of you are relative.
Otherwise from memory too, the just middle, did not make a mass stove, but just added a mass around a hot spot, to increase the diffusion time.
What is not all did the same.
But hey if he reads this passage he will be able to say what it is.
a + claude


ok, @ +
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aerialcastor
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by aerialcastor » 29/03/12, 20:26

Hi Clasou,

Here are two links to size a mass stove. This is the best I have seen.
There is the very complicated calculation part, but also graphs which necessarily allow to understand all the calculations.

http://lutopie.eu/index.php?option=com_ ... &Itemid=55
http://www.xelyx.com/index.php?option=c ... 9&Itemid=9
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by dedeleco » 29/03/12, 20:49

The link, n ° 2, uses the word diffusion of heat in a 5cm air space, which is not diffusion but convection in an exchanger, and the value 0,085 comes out of where, justified by what convection or air movement conditions ????

I am wary of this type of calculation !!!

The configuration of the starting stove is not clear on the next page.

The configuration of the starting stove is not clear on the next page.

In his calculations in concrete blocks, he ignores everything, real diffusion times by taking only the thermal resistance !!!
If the block was thicker it would be a huge mistake.
Clearly, he did not understand anything about thermal diffusion, believing that thermal resistance is enough, the only knowledge he has with the diffusion equation which he does nothing after a muddy speech.

The duration of the starting surge required must be long enough to allow time for the diffusion to let the heat to accumulate pass, point not at all considered, given the incomprehension of the diffusion, confused with the thermal conductivity in steady state.
He does not speak of the sweeping of his stove, with the soot that settles there !!

Unsatisfactory calculations, apart from the mass heated to 300 ° C, T which will never be reached uniformly throughout the mass.
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clasou
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by clasou » 30/03/12, 10:35

Hello Arielcastor,
I knew the 2nd link,
Well these are the people who are precisely on the futura thread, it is true that they know since it is their means of heating, self manufactured and which it takes measurements in real time.

So maybe the formulas or terms used may not all be correct, but it is experience.
There are also the al um photo of their construction by stages.

a + claude
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dedeleco
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by dedeleco » 30/03/12, 14:01

Take a good stove with a good heat exchanger surface (outgoing smoke close to 100 ° C and cleanable soot heat exchanger) and then connect the heat exchanger and its stove with thick metal bars (copper, aluminum, or even thicker iron which calculated, about 50 to 400 times more conductive than brick) to the mass of thermal storage all around, or the air to be heated passes and it will be more efficient and quick.
You will have no risk of smoke leaks, in cracks, bricks.

http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Po%C3%AAle_de_masse
http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diffusivit%C3%A9_thermique

A site that stands more scientifically to read and potash, but which completely ignores thermal diffusion:
http://lutopie.eu/index.php?option=com_ ... &Itemid=55
but it forgets the essential metal bars to accelerate the useful heat exchanges during the rapid outbreak.

With the basic course to be assimilated (among others):
http://philippe.roux.7.perso.neuf.fr/Re ... rmique.pdf

http://www.coeurdefoyer.fr/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Masonry_heater
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