Nature also makes mistakes and makes "GMOs"?

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by Ibis. » 21/06/10, 21:28

This is called a chimera (an individual with several types of cells). A cell at the apex (the peak of growth from the previous year) mutates. This cell multiplies normally and gives a mutated zone, and forms one or more different buds (here green in color). These mutated buds are called "sports". They are quite common on vegetatively propagated plants.

In the case of Geepy, if complete branches of the base are green, they are probably rejects from the rootstock.
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by highfly-addict » 21/06/10, 21:41

A chimera is an individual with several genomes.

According to Francis Hallé, most trees are chimeras: http://www.telerama.fr/monde/francis-halle-les-arbres-peuvent-etre-immortels-et-ca-fait-peur,34762.php

http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francis_Hall%C3%A9

Nature is an inexhaustible source of wonder and astonishment!

:D
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by Ibis. » 21/06/10, 21:45

Thank you highflyaddict,

By saying an individual with several types of cells, that is what I meant 8)
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by Obamot » 21/06/10, 23:21

Yes, fun, wonderful and mysterious "nature". I also tell myself that we are also part of nature, so if we create a transgenic plant it's natural isn't it? Why not finally modify man, while we are at it? The whole question for the sorcerer's apprentice is whether he does a little too much or not enough. But he has nothing to fear! Because if the model is really bad, it will not survive it ... Nature is unforgiving, right?

Christophe wrote:Yes didi, so there would be many possible mutations (differentiation would be more "fair" no?) at the level of the buds?

As if there was, at random, a rare "memory of (previous) genes"? : Shock:


Especially at this level!

Ok I -> am already outside : Mrgreen: : Shock:

[Edit:] What I find frightening is the little respect that we bring to the living. What we should do is be humble compared to everything that nature has produced for 4 billion years (see more if we go back to the origin of things). That we have discovered the genome and that we know how to manipulate it should inspire us with this respect. Scientists should take the chance to observe and really find out how it works. Well no, since everything is haggling you need results, it has to be useful for something ... it has to be profitable! Only every time the money gets involved, we run into disaster. Want a list?
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by Did67 » 22/06/10, 12:23

From memory, I am no longer keen enough.

But in the case of the "red" leaves which become green again, the leaf is red due to a blockage in the production of chlorophyll ... Suddenly, the other pigments (still present - but "dominated", c ' are they who color our forests red in autumn, when the production of chlorophyll decreases) set the tone ...

So I actually think that what Christophe observes is a "restoration" of the genome and the ability to manufacture chlorophyll. By the way, it is an extremely trivial thing: in the multiplication of cells, therefore the duplication of DNA, mistakes are common. Fortunately, they are very often repaired. And sometimes not, there it is spoiled ... Cancer, degeneration, etc ...

I would have to dig up the question and my old old memories: a lot of discolorations and also odd shapes (tortuous hazel tree) are often the result of infestations by viruses, which somehow "damage" normal functioning ... of time in time, in a bud, the cells manage to get rid of the virus and therefore everything returns to normal ...

It is one or the other, in the case of Christophe. Nothing to do with the regrowth from a rootstock (this is common in grafted woody plants - roses, fruit trees, etc.).
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by highfly-addict » 22/06/10, 13:43

Did67 wrote:...
But in the case of the "red" leaves which become green again, the leaf is red due to a blockage in the production of chlorophyll ... Suddenly, the other pigments (still present - but "dominated", c ' are they who color our forests red in autumn, when the production of chlorophyll decreases) set the tone ...
...


A blockage in the production of chlorophyll? But how does the tree grow then (and it seems to grow well!)?

And I don't think that by simply "adding" the color "chlorophyll green" we get the usual green of the leaves of the hazel tree.

No, chlorophyll is already here!

I am thinking rather of the "overexpression" of a gene which produces anthocyanin, a purple pigment which in principle makes it possible to broaden the absorption spectrum and protect against the cold. This gene should in principle be not very active on a "normal" hazel tree and should be used in its youth (when it is in the shade) and sometimes in the spring during late cold snap.

Here, my little advice to two hazelnuts!


8)
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by Did67 » 22/06/10, 17:09

Just two details:

- if chlorophyll is the best performing pigment, it is not the only one: there are indeed others ...
("carotenoids") - see for example: http://www.snv.jussieu.fr/bmedia/Photos ... gments.htm

- the color results from the "dominant": once again, if the leaves turn yellow, orange, red in the fall, it is because the chlorophyll disappears and lets the other pigments appear, before becoming discolored by drying out. .

- indeed, the purple color of the hazelnut tree (or other species) is undoubtedly linked to an overproduction of anthocyanins and an underproduction of chlorophyll ...

- these other pigments are also active question "capture of solar energy": red cabbage grows almost as well as white cabbage, right? For carotenoids it is sure (see article cited); for anthocyanins, I have a doubt now (they are not mentioned).
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by antoinet111 » 29/07/10, 22:11

Hello, red is an anthocyanin, it's just more colorful than chlorophyll pigments, but not incompatible. (Note: anthocyanin is a pigment associated with a molecule very good for health, so all red plants are the best for health)


in this case, Ibis is right, it is actually a degeneration, often due to the age of the plants.

in the case of a hazel tree, the multiplication is vegetative (we cut a piece of stem or root and presto, a new identical plant; we just made a Clone)

in this kind of case, the cutting retains the characteristics of the mother plant, genetic, typological and its age.

outside, a plant like us from a certain "age" sees cells which become old, most of the time, they die or remain hidden, but sometimes we can observe them.

(ex: white leaves in geranium, ...)


Did, just a nutty clarification, but friendly, a plant does not "grow", it develops or grows.

- Development is the acquisition of new functions (flowering, tuberization, ...)

- Growth is weight gain, modification in terms of mass and volume.

there is a little debate on it, but it's not much.

:D



something else, it is not to make a debate on the GMOs, but it should not be believed that it is a "thing" invented by a researcher, it is simply a reproduction of what has been observed in nature between virus and bacteria).

:D :D
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by dedeleco » 30/07/10, 00:04

the cutting retains the characteristics of the mother plant, genetic, typological and its age.

Not always true for age, Parts and accessories a lot of plants have multiplied by cutting or layering for so long that they have forgotten their age !!
example fig trees for millennia, biannual plants, which live much longer than 2 years, brambles or blackberries, raspberries, etc ... even hazel trees, etc ...
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by highfly-addict » 30/07/10, 00:19

Absolutely Dedeleco!

Besides, it seems to me that it is commonly accepted by botanists that most perennials are virtually immortal.

Obviously, in reality, accidents always happen.
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