Gardening with the moon: for or against?

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Janic
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by Janic » 22/01/16, 14:02

And hundreds of millions believe in such a God ...
Who for the atheist does not exist!

There are lots of things that have no rational explanation (at the moment anyway). So the assertion of the non-existence of something is only linked (apart from the philosophical side) to the lack of adequate means to assert then a previously denied existence. Example dark matter, dark energy, big bang, etc ...
[I did not understand janic's objection well: I can just testify that I have repeatedly met people, in very difficult situations, who "worked miracles", visibly animated by their faith;

You are right to put it in quotes, because either it was achievable independently of any belief (often it is only a question of means available) or it actually goes beyond the usual framework of physics and there (but this is exceptional) we can qualify this as a “miracle”.
I therefore do not dispute the effect of what for me, an atheist, is an autosuggestion; as I do not dispute that in the same situations, in the name of my atheistic convictions, I have developed important energies; therefore "lifting up mountains" neither proves nor invalidates the existence of God!

It is true that deep convictions (the equivalent of religious faith as long as there is a difference!) Can overcome many obstacles, but it is not a miracle either.
It's just that the human brain can motivate itself in different ways ... Rarely rational ...
It is always possible, but it still remains within the limited framework of our usual possibilities, even exacerbated.
So yes, millions can say something that doesn't really exist!

It is indeed a recognized fact, but still and always compared to references selected beforehand. Take the example of UFOs which are often deceptive visual phenomena that some try to explain, to rationalize and then there are those who go beyond the usual rational (always selected by the way). So an unbeliever will automatically eliminate the probability of an external entity, a believer will consider this eventuality as possible even without a rational verification, impossible besides.
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"We make science with facts, like making a house with stones: but an accumulation of facts is no more a science than a pile of stones is a house" Henri Poincaré
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Gaston
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by Gaston » 22/01/16, 14:09

Janic wrote:So an unbeliever will automatically eliminate the probability of an external entity, a believer will consider this eventuality as possible even without a rational verification, impossible besides.
Or vice versa: a believer will automatically accept the existence of an external entity (thus reinforcing his belief) and a non-believer will wait for an impossible rational proof.
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Janic
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by Janic » 22/01/16, 15:37

Janic wrote:
Thus an unbeliever will automatically eliminate the probability of an external entity, a believer will consider this possibility as possible even without a rational verification, impossible moreover.

Or conversely: a believer will automatically accept the existence of an external entity (thus reinforcing his belief) and a non-believer await an impossible rational proof.
That's quite right! We are faced with two opposing beliefs: which is credible?
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Gaston
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by Gaston » 22/01/16, 15:41

Janic wrote:That's quite right! We are faced with two opposing beliefs: which is credible?
Both ... or none ...

There are however areas in which rational proof exists ... but that does not prevent believers of the opposite thesis from continuing to believe.
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Janic
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by Janic » 22/01/16, 15:54

There are however areas in which rational proof exists ... but that does not prevent believers of the opposite thesis from continuing to believe.
for example?
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"We make science with facts, like making a house with stones: but an accumulation of facts is no more a science than a pile of stones is a house" Henri Poincaré

 


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