Washing machine, its design programmer

[Forhorse]

Hello everybody

So here, yesterday I had the classic shot of the fault washing machine, precisely when we had a ton of laundry late (theory of maximum pain in the ass)

After a search on the net, it seems that our machine is affected by a current failure on our model: a programmer failure that prevents the machine from performing its spin function.
It is naturally almost irreparable (am not hot to deglinguer a programmer with cam set by everywhere and to raise it) and the part is overpriced / not found.
So inevitably buying a new washing machine (while it was not really the time but good, everyone knows the problem)

Nevertheless I say to myself that it is a shame to fall in the roads for a trick also con. It is no more stupid than a washing machine, and as long as the mechanics is good (tank, drum, palliate), the rest can be tinkered easily.

I have for a long time had a project that runs through my head: starting from the base of a broken down machine but in good mechanical condition, and replacing all that is "electrical" by industrial equipment and / or homemade cards .
I do a lot of work on industrial programmable controllers and frequency inverters (it's almost my business) and microcontrollers.
So the project consists in replacing the original programmer with a programmable controller, the thermostat with a temperature regulator, the motor with a three-phase motor and a frequency converter and cabling / programming all this to wash clothes.

I see several advantages to this solution:
- Knowledge and perfect control of the operation of the machine thus an easy and fast troubleshooting
- high interobstability of the components (current industrial component of which there is always more or less an equivalent that is sufficient to adapt)
- Extended life (wired and used correctly these components can run 25 to 30 years before they know their first failure)
- A "control box" that can be reused and adapted to almost any broken down machine but the mechanics of which are good: recycling of scrapped machine very often for a very simple breakdown

The only thing I miss for this project is the cycle-by-cycle description of what the machine does.
What is the sequence of actions that are triggered during a prewash / wash / rinse / spin cycle? How does the engine run? According to which period / cycle? for how long ? According to what?
In short all that could help me to define the logical sequence that I should code in the automaton so that the machine washed Of the laundry without destroying it.

I am in charge of any info / sites / descriptions that could help me in this project.
Of course I would inform you of the progress of my work and if it is conclusive I would put everything available so that an amateur enlightened can reproduce the experience.

[gegyx]

It's not stupid, you always have good ideas.

But still, it's daring! You will be tracked down, harassed by the nervis of the World Cnie.

A basic washing machine is relatively simple. So it's doable, with time.
But, be on the lookout for the recent machines in the roads. It's not obvious, and it's going to become less and less, with the rubbish dumps and then henceforth with the resumption of the old machine with the purchase of a new one ...
In a few moments, you will have to fabricate in the same way the useless mechanics, because it can not be found ...


For programs, you only have to see the brochures of the machines. For cycles and times according to the materials.
For more precision, sit in front of the machine and observe the different phases.

But with your rationalistic perspective, do you really want to make a "woolen berth" program?
Especially for washing horse blankets ...

Otherwise, a peak should do it for programming, but frankly for the engine?
It does not cost any less expensive a standard engine (especially to recover), rather than a three-phase industrial motor, with a frequency converter?

[chatelot16]

I have almost the same idea as you!

I have an indesit that has 30 years with asynchronous motor 2 indestructible speed, but mechanical programmer that I have already dismounted to twist some tab to compensate the wear of the cam

I have already modified the automatism by adding relays, to check that the level drops before starting the spin ... it must be said that originally it is the main engine that has the pump of draining: it had to Wring out to empty! I put another pump

And I have loads of other mechanically good machine and with intermittent programmer failure

I find the industrial automaton too expensive ... a card has a spike would be interesting with 2 function!
1) spy on the original programmer to record what is happening and to avoid spending hours in front of the machine to know its program
2) completely replace the programmer with the possibility to define his own program

With a three-phase inverter programmable for single-phase there is enough to increase the speed of the original asynchronous motor to better spin (not too long) but this is really not the priority, asynchronous 2 speed motor are well

Helas the newer machine have bizare engine and it is necessary to repair the original variator, or to replace the motor

We do not have to respect the original program: when I wash very dirty laundry, I switch to manual mode, with switches that I put in order not to use the programmer: I made washing much longer Long: I also rode the 2 first rinse, which also serve as washing

[chatelot16]

I had to change a programmer for nothing on a speedboat or brandt: it was just a contact on the door except that this contact does not cut all the operation of the machine but cut Only spin

In addition its mechanical programmer is rather bizarre: the spinning does not happen if one turns the button in the zone or it spores, one must have the patience to let it come to it alone

[Forhorse]

We could do this with a PIC (that's what I intended to use when I thought about it a few years ago) but for the moment I will use a Siemens S5-95U API, one finds it with the shovel Used for about 50 €
I need to have 4 in stock in a box.

Often they are bastarded for reasons of machine modernization while it is devices almost punctured.

Of course we could keep the original engine, it would be cheaper. But I still want to stick a tri-asynchronous motor and a frequency inverter. In the power ranges of a machine an even new drive is not excessively expensive and allows refining which is not necessarily provided on the original machine.
For example, I realized that machines that have the variable load function (weighing the weight of the laundry to adjust the amount of water) carries out this weighing simply by measuring the current absorbed by the engine at the first start (the requested torque To the motor and therefore the current absorbed by the motor is a function of the weight in the drum, by measuring this current, the load of the machine is easily deduced)
When the sorting engine is found in the second-hand shovel, almost nobody has the three-phase now.

The recup of old machines is really not what worries me. Just enough to put family and friends to work, there is always a way to have one or two machines ahead of time
And as long as the washing machines are based on the same principle (a drum that rotates in a tank) the system will be adaptable on even new machines.

[chatelot16]

To evaluate the weight of linen by the couple to make turn it is not obvious!

If the laundry is tightly packed in the drum, the center of gravity will be at the center of rotation and it will not require any torque to turn!

It is rather a partial load when the linen is raised by the drum and falls back in the middle that ca will make the biggest couple

If I had to evaluate the quantity of linen without a true weight sensor, I would rather fill the tank at a precise level without turning the drum: then it would rotate so that the linen would absorb water and measure the new level: Decrease the amount of linen is large

On my machine I notice when I put too much linen that it goes off to complete the filling because the level has dropped too

[AXEAU]

Good evening Forhorse.

I had the same problem on a Thalassa Vedette, it was just a small spring that holds a pawl resting on the cam of the programmer which was broken.
It was not easy to see between the cams but I was able to fix it.

Take the time to look at it carefully, you could save money.

jlg

[tome]

On the old star, there were 2 condos, one for slow speed and the other for spinning.
When there was a spin failure it was often the corresponding condo that was stiff.

I already did a long time ago (20 years ago) a washing machine control with a PB15 Thomson at the time.

In general, it is possible to make the punches except if plastic tank and fickle bearing

[manitou22]

Hello,
For the motor, it is better to change it for a model with permanent magnets controlled by a controller, this one by a millenium type automaton; It is very easy to vary the speed, the direction of operation of this type of engine. Besides, LG mounted it on his direct lava linen drive. This type of engine was found on the fisher and paykel washing machines, which were also the happiness of the self-builders of small wind turbines which use them as generators without big modification.
A+

[Forhorse]

To evaluate the weight of linen by the couple to make turn it is not obvious!

I can be wrong but that is how it seems to measure up on my new machine.
As soon as it is started, before doing anything, there is a very small engine stroke, hardly 1 / 4 kind of drum turn, and then it really starts (filling, etc ... )

I deduce that this is how the measurement of quantity of linen is done.
With an advanced frequency inverter (like Parker / SSD 690 +) the current / motor torque information is directly accessible, you can even calculate the data directly in the drive before or make comparisons to get the info on Outputs or output a proportional signal on an analog output ...
Finally good there I go a little too far! I get excited

Already running the machine with a "normal" program it will be nice, I will see for refinements later.

Ah April PB15 ... what memories! Lol, that's what I learned to program (when at the time it was already totally obsolete ... long live the national education)