The Night Price of Electricity

[PVresistif]

Paying electricity bills for more than 40 years and having had to move 5 times, I had to know about various electrical installations and so I could compare them. I removed the tariff night, because that It has changed and it would have cost me money every year since 20 years.
Here is a small mathematical study that you should look for to check, how much you earn or more likely to cost you the night rate, if you have not already done so.
Do not forget, the next night EDF is 8 h on 24 h is 66% of time at the day rate, 66% of the time or electricity costs more than just basic rate.

Note: this small study is made from the tariff 6Kva of the historical operator only; for those who would be elsewhere thank you to tell us if the problem is different; moreover with a basic rate it is a priori simpler to change supplier, one more reason to adopt it.
List of documents:
-Study rate March 2018
-annex a: balance consumption calculation according to the day's share
-Annex b: graph
-Appendix c: EDF 94 1994 tariff)

[Gaston]

As you detail in your documents, it all depends on the consumption profile (reducing it to heating and hot water is a bit simplistic).

It is not difficult to shift some consumptions: my dishwasher and my washing machine have a delayed start and I make them work mostly in off-peak hours (if I have to run them in full hours, I try to focus on short programs).

In the end, without heating or electric water heater, and without any real constraints of use, I arrive at 50% of my consumption at full price and 50% at night rate, which makes the double fare save me ( not much: a few dozen euros a year).

So, yes, the price day / night is much less interesting (financially) than there is 20 years, so far, it is not always unprofitable compared to the basic rate.

[sicetaitsimple]

Yes, everything depends on his personal situation (habitat and his equipment, composition of the home, lifestyle, ...).

Nevertheless, even if I have not studied them in detail, I would point out that there are so-called "market" offers (not the "regulated" tariffs mentioned above) which certainly deserve to be watched for those who are equipped with a Linky meter.. Being neither a big consumer nor equipped with Linky, this explains that I really looked.

But EDF and Engie offer offers where "off-peak hours" apply 24 hours a day throughout the weekend, and Direct Energie has announced a "off-peak hours" offer where from 24 am to 2 am the rates would be reduced by 6%.

All without ads, I cited the 3 main actors. Everyone has to do their calculations, provided they have a Linky.

[Gaston]

I made the calculations (with necessarily some assumptions since the meter does not measure my consumption of the Week-End for example), and for me, all these offers are equivalent to a few tens of euros per year.

I draw particular attention to the "marketing" presentation of these offers which, for example, offer off-peak hours at 50% reduction ...
The 50% are calculated in relation to the rate of the full hours of the same offer, which are, they, much more expensive than the full hours of the regulated tariffs ...

Ditto for off-peak "Weekend" hours, peak hours are more expensive.

[Did67]

1) We can "estimate" the interest from the consumption that is "deferred" and that which is not. There are "standard" consumptions of the main devices.

2) Do not be fooled by the discipline that requires washing every weekend, for example.

I had an unfortunate experience with the connection of a classic LL on the solar water heater. To prevent the rinses from consuming the hot water reserve (solar), I installed a mixing valve and a bypass. It was necessary, after the washing phase, to "switch" a 1/4 turn tap ...

The experience was that very quickly combining "doing the laundry when it was sunny" + "turning the tap on half an hour after the start of the program" became such a constraint that the system was used little, then almost more. at all !

At first, we are always all fire / all flame. And then the constraints of everyday life quickly take over! Except perhaps severe decreases, who get rid of wage labor (but not always welfare systems that those who do not free themselves feed ...!)?

[Gaston]

1) We can "estimate" the interest from the consumption that is "deferred" and that which is not. There are "standard" consumptions of the main devices.

Yes, but from this point of view, not much difference between the simple off-peak hours rate (at night) and the "Super Low-off Hours" rates (night + weekends).

I am already in Off-peak Hours (so I try as much as possible to keep heavy consumers running at night), only my Weekend “Peak Hours” consumption could benefit from this rate.

The experience was that very quickly combining "doing the laundry when it was sunny" + "turning the tap on half an hour after the start of the program" became such a constraint that the system was used little, then almost more. at all !

Fully agree.
This kind of thing has to be automatic, otherwise it's quickly not used.

For this particular case, a washing machine with two water inlets is more convenient (although it is difficult to find).

[chatelot16]

the off-peak fare is valid only when there is a water heater is a significant proportion of the consumption

when the main part of the consomation is machines to work and we work during the day, the price day night is useless ... alas edf imposed me when I asked for a power increase to 18KVA

another supplier: enercoop does not make a day rate night, because according to them the cost price of the service provided does not change enough between the days and the night ... and yet it is imposed by I do not know which rules: they have therefore put in their tariff a double rate contract day night with a difference day night completely derisory which makes this double tariff useless ... but we can not impose them to make a double tariff with a variation more than what he calculated!

[Did67]

The argument Enercoop is debatable: it depends!

There are night-time production capacities (wind power, run-of-river dams and nuclear power plants - which are all the more profitable as they are running all the time ...). Therefore, it is reasonable to "smooth" the consumption curve. Never forget that an electrical network must be calibrated for the highest demand! And it is this investment that must be financed ...

So "smoothing out" would make a lot of sense. And in particular by incentive pricing policies ... The current of "full night" is sold almost for nothing on the spot markets (sometimes, for a negative price; even if we agree that it is about little. things, this indicates that there is a surplus).

But a more flexible system, with "real" time information from the consumer, and significant "rebates" is needed. EdF is too much in debt to think about it. Their policy, let's face it, is to sell us the most expensive electricity possible (within the limits of the tariffs agreed by the regulatory authority; therefore to "discount" as little as possible: in short, to resume via the 'additional subscription the bulk of what they give us back). If in the kitchen a small box showed 50% current between midnight and 4 am on a given day, I think that more people would be interested in the "delayed start" mode of their LL or LV! I'm not talking about increasing the subscription. I am talking about "discounting" part of the energy produced at a lower cost ...

After that, it remains that certain consumptions are easily deferred (LL, LV - today almost all equipped with "delayed start"). Others could be with some "adaptations" (for example, modern freezers all have a "duration" of 24 to 36 hours; one could therefore "recharge" in cold on the night current and imagine a system which does not 'engages day only in case of "security" - if the freezer, opened too often, drops below a certain threshold) ...

I am also sure that on industrial "processes", certain greedy operations could be postponed - cooking, etc ...

[chatelot16]

I find that current washing machines are more difficult to differ than old!

with an old mechanical programmer it could be plugged into a power outlet only at night rate ... we turn the button to start it and it starts as soon as the night rate arrives

with modern washing machines it is impossible: it is necessary that the washing machine is always under tension and to program the time of starting ... with a method of setting complicated and different for each washing machine ... absurd

it's even more complicated when you want to optimize a lava lainge for self-consumption: with an old one it can be lit when there is sun, and cut when there is cloud, and when the sun comes back the mechanical programmer continues without problem ... with the modern machine, it's impossible: at the slightest cut the machine stops and does not finish the washing

It is therefore absolutely essential to put on the market an adaptable programmer to replace the bad electronics of all these machines ... this adaptable programmer will also regulate the solenoid valve management to use hot water

[sicetaitsimple]

So "smoothing out" would make a lot of sense. And in particular by incentive pricing policies ... The current of "full night" is sold almost for nothing on the spot markets (sometimes, for a negative price; even if we agree that it is about little. things, this indicates that there is a surplus).

But a more flexible system, with "real" time information from the consumer, and significant "rebates" is needed. EdF is too much in debt to think about it. Their policy, let's face it, is to sell us the most expensive electricity possible (within the limits of the tariffs agreed to by the regulatory authority; therefore to "discount" as little as possible: often, goes below of a certain threshold) ...

Be careful not to go too quickly to conclusions.

Whatever the supplier, EDF, Enercoop, Engie, Direct Energie, or another on the +/- 0,15 € / kWh which appear all included on the invoice, there is to the ladle 0,10 € which they do not control and which correspond, on the one hand, to transport and distribution (the remuneration of RTE and Enedis, which is the same regardless of the supplier with the same consumption profile) and, on the other hand, to various taxes, including the famous CSPE which alone weighs 0,0225 € / kWh.

In other words, the difference in price is about 0,05 € / kWh which is the remuneration of the electricity supplier.

We understand that there can be no miracle at the price TTC ... and that the simple CSPE alone explains why the difference between HP and HC seems much lower in percentage than there are some years.