When farmers make more money producing energy than food

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izentrop
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When farmers make more money producing energy than food




by izentrop » 17/09/22, 08:54

Instead of being used to feed humans and animals, foodstuffs and crops are swallowed up en masse in methanizers. Bypassing the law to leave the field open to “energy corn” is child's play, well understood by farmers. Because the dice are loaded: producing energy pays more than raising cows...

But why waste food to produce energy, when anaerobic digestion boasts of recycling livestock effluents (slurry, manure, etc.)? Well, because certain crops and certain food products are much more methanogenic than these effluents, that is to say, they produce more methane. The fermentation of manure is much less efficient than that of maize.

Cultivated for human or animal food, certain plants are also used to nourish and protect the soil. But, following the law on energy transition of 2015, another type of crop appears in the fields: the intermediate crop for energy purposes (CIVE).
Planted and harvested between two main crops in a crop rotation, the CIVE is used as an input in an agricultural methanation unit, after having played a role of plant cover to protect the soil from erosion or the waterways from the runoff of pollutants. No limit is set for the introduction of CIVEs into methanizers, unlike the main crops (corn, cabbage, barley, etc.), which cannot exceed 15% of inputs per year...
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Re: When farmers make more money producing energy than food




by Janic » 17/09/22, 12:38

it's no worse (or better) than producing corn to feed animals that will produce methanizable waste and "feed" humans, which represents a huge waste of energy, rather than reducing this cycle by feeding DIRECTLY humanity.
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Re: When farmers make more money producing energy than food




by phil59 » 17/09/22, 12:59

Could this be a disguised attack on a member of the forum ?

Because, starting from the roof, optimizing, taking a risk for that, you have to do it, and have the "balls" to do it.

So to supplement their income, which for some is a disaster, what would you do if you had a solution?

Test hanging? (generally, you are entitled to a test).

Say it's not okay?

Well, of course, we expect food from them, but we put a lot of obstacles in their way!

So, you have to help them, though, it's just crap on their part, to survive, for many.

If they can do both, then that's cool.

But in your place, either you can be 100% in a charity, where you work, what do you choose?

To live on love and fresh water is good, for a moment.
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Re: When farmers make more money producing energy than food




by Janic » 17/09/22, 18:15

phil
Could this be a disguised attack on a member of the forum ?
not disguised at all and not against ONE member of anything, but it is a common reality
Because, starting from the roof, optimizing, taking a risk for that, you have to do it, and have the "balls" to do it.
it is not a risk, but a calculation of profitability, more and more profitable moreover!
So to supplement their income, which for some is a disaster, what would you do if you had a solution?
That's the only point where you're almost right. But today's farmers are only the victims of the decisions made by their elders and the disaster that caused them! parents drink and their children toast!
Well, of course, we expect food from them, but we put a lot of obstacles in their way!
We expect healthy food from them, allowing people to stop getting sick from the toxic chemicals they have been made to use to the detriment of public health (157000 deaths from cancer and 150000 from heart disease in France each year )
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Re: When farmers make more money producing energy than food




by sicetaitsimple » 17/09/22, 18:42

Janic wrote: We expect healthy food from them, allowing people to stop getting sick from the toxic chemicals they have been made to use to the detriment of public health (157000 deaths from cancer and 150000 from heart disease in France each year )


It is known that before the use of "toxic chemicals" in agriculture, people did not die, or only exceptionally, from an accident.
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Re: When farmers make more money producing energy than food




by sicetaitsimple » 17/09/22, 18:58

izentrop wrote:
Instead of being used to feed humans and animals, foodstuffs and crops are swallowed up en masse in methanizers. Bypassing the law to leave the field open to “energy corn” is child's play, well understood by farmers. Because the dice are loaded: producing energy pays more than raising cows...

But why waste food to produce energy, when anaerobic digestion boasts of recycling livestock effluents (slurry, manure, etc.)? Well, because certain crops and certain food products are much more methanogenic than these effluents, that is to say, they produce more methane. The fermentation of manure is much less efficient than that of maize.

Cultivated for human or animal food, certain plants are also used to nourish and protect the soil. But, following the law on energy transition of 2015, another type of crop appears in the fields: the intermediate crop for energy purposes (CIVE).
Planted and harvested between two main crops in a crop rotation, the CIVE is used as an input in an agricultural methanation unit, after having played a role of plant cover to protect the soil from erosion or the waterways from the runoff of pollutants. No limit is set for the introduction of CIVEs into methanizers, unlike the main crops (corn, cabbage, barley, etc.), which cannot exceed 15% of inputs per year...


I didn't really understand the connection between the first part of your article and the second.

On the first, OK, growing corn to methanize it is stupidity.
But on the CIVE, as their name suggests Intermediate culture between two main cultures, I don't see the problem....

Did you delete an intermediate paragraph?
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Re: When farmers make more money producing energy than food




by phil59 » 17/09/22, 19:10

Janic wrote:Because, starting from the roof, optimizing, taking a risk for that, you have to do it, and have the "balls" to do it.

This is not a risk, but a calculation of profitability, more and more profitable by the way!


Little background, why, you, as an individual, if you live in a house, and has a roof available, plus maybe a garden, don't you?
For me, criticizing others is easy, rather than thinking, why was I so stupid not to do it? And above all, a few years ago began to do it, had to dare.

The technical director of the job, began to make a study, more than a year ago, to make 3000-4000m2 of photovoltaic shade on the car park, and I also made my proposal.
Project of the order of €1, with a ladle, and from the first year, with my study, we didn't lose any "money", I also had our accountant analyze it, and in 000 years, we was 000, the rest after profit. When more than a year ago, you pay €12-0 for juice, it goes quickly.
At the time he didn't commit, and not being at work now, I don't know where this project is, because currently, I think it should be even more profitable...
Turnover of the company, without betraying any secrets, of the order of €100....


So to supplement their income, which for some is a disaster, what would you do if you had a solution?
That's the only point where you're almost right. But today's farmers are only the victims of the decisions made by their elders and the disaster that caused them! parents drink and their children toast!

So what ? They're not allowed to try to get away with it?

Well, of course, we expect food from them, but we put a lot of obstacles in their way!
We expect healthy food from them, allowing people to stop getting sick from the toxic chemicals they have been made to use to the detriment of public health (157000 deaths from cancer and 150000 from heart disease in France each year )
Yes, but bringing in the food, which is not as good in general, is not the solution either, especially since in other countries, we bother them a little less. So yes, you have to bring it into line, but....

Currently, not a specialist at all in this (and in nothing either), I believe that only cereal producers in general are doing very well.
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Re: When farmers make more money producing energy than food




by Janic » 17/09/22, 20:15

phil
For me, criticizing others is easy, rather than thinking, why was I so stupid not to do it? And above all, a few years ago began to do it, had to dare.
it's not about criticizing those who try to get out of the shit in which the "illusory economic" system has placed them and if they become energy producers, good for them, at least they[* ] would no longer poison soils and consumers of their chemicals
[*] the profiteers of the situation
Janic
That's the only point where you're almost right. But today's farmers are only the victims of the decisions made by their elders and the disaster that caused. for them! parents drink and their children toast!

So what ? They're not allowed to try to get away with it?
on the contrary, that's what they do, right? By making gas with their agricultural products as for ethanol, moreover, with a lot of beets, among others.
Well, of course, we expect food from them, but we put a lot of obstacles in their way!
We expect them to healthy food allowing populations to no longer fall ill from the toxic chemicals that they have been made to use to the detriment of public health (157000 deaths from cancer and 150000 from cardio diseases in France each year)
Yes, but bringing in the food, which is not as good in general, is not the solution either, especially since in other countries, we bother them a little less. So yes, you have to bring it into line, but....
Come back down to earth a bit, your playground is over. The diseases in question are not related only to toxic imports by chemicals added by the food industry in addition to agriculture
Currently, not a specialist at all in this (and in nothing either), I believe that only cereal producers in general are doing very well.
north america way only with huge desert lands without trees, without hedges sheltering the predators of insect pests replaced by toxic chemicals for the surrounding flora and fauna? Beautiful future for the generations to come who toast and will toast!
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Re: When farmers make more money producing energy than food




by phil59 » 17/09/22, 20:19

I think you have a good analysis, but unfortunately only partial, taking into account only the outcomes.
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Re: When farmers make more money producing energy than food




by Janic » 17/09/22, 20:26

17/09/22, 20:19
I think you have a good analysis, but unfortunately only partial, taking into account only the outcomes.
oh well, can you do better?
philCurrently, not a specialist at all in this (and in nothing either)
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