Study feasibility of wind turbine 2kW home?

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Obamot
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by Obamot » 15/12/15, 20:39

No, don't listen to Kenny-K that's all wrong. We can forgive Chatelot, he did not study cremona: he will understand.

On the other hand, impossible to let that pass:

dedeleco wrote:Every word from chatelot16 is worth its weight of advice to listen to, no offense to Kenny-k [Flytox Moderation] who says without anything all around and shows photos with buildings, etc ... !!

Yes aluminum is vicious with lots of dead like
https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/De_Havilland_Comet
as a result of metal fatigue on thousands of small tremors
"these accidents are due to metal fatigue":
https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fatigue_% ... %A9riau%29

much more serious for aluminum than for steel !!

The wind is very tiring.

Finally, the eddies and whirlpools even at 2 times higher are still disruptive by reducing the efficiency, on a wind turbine, which moreover has an inefficient regulator, which amplifies the speed oscillations instead of stabilizing them !!.

The fine blades are for a steady wind at a fixed speed with a very fixed direction and the slightest fluctuation or direction of a few degrees destroys the yield.


uh no, very bad example and totally false:

At 10'000m altitude (-50 ° C):

- the ferritic structure of iron would become brittle (much more than metal)
- annealed ferritic steels, would suffer from elastic limit anomalies, they would threaten to fall apart (necking).
- only austenitic steels remain ductile.

So the metal is quite unusable at altitude for a structure (compared to aluminum), moreover, when the temperature rises, the resistance of the metals decreases. Aluminum, it gradually lengthens ...

For the elastic limit (that which concerns the mats in the case of this wire) aluminum, iron, magnesium and titanium are in the same category (best performing metals 269 N.mm.Kg-1).

Aluminum alloys are even better in mechanical characteristics than ordinary steels (for a density near 3x less 2,7 Kg / dm3 VS) ... It is therefore not a heresy to make an aluminum mat if the '' we expect that the metal will have to absorb the stresses due to its own weight! otherwise [Flytox Moderation] the mast is an assembly of three uprights assembled by a structure of cremona sketch >>> which gives the whole a titanic resistance almost indestructible. So your words are big salad.

Indeed, it is not therefore:
1) that the metal is free from fatigue problems (on the contrary, see above).
2) that the choice of aluminum would have been inappropriate (otherwise they would not have made any changes they would have changed the alloy.)

To set an admissible fatigue limit (σf), this is calculated taking into account the maximum stresses in service + safety factor.

The fatigue of the aluminum in the case of this airplane, was therefore manifested because of a bad sizing at the point of rupture which placed the part "beyond the admissible threshold" known - and not because the aluminum would have been inappropriate or because of the fatigue of the aluminum relating to its aging - every day airliners are subjected to extreme stresses, rising to approx. 10 meters above sea level and descending at temperatures up to> + 000 ° C, even several times a day without damage. Going from tropical temperatures on the ground, to temperatures of -40 ° C at cruising altitude, reaching ∆ ° of nearly 50 ° C without worry and this for decades ...

[Flytox Moderation]
Last edited by Obamot the 15 / 12 / 15, 20: 48, 1 edited once.
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Kenny-k
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by Kenny-k » 15/12/15, 20:48

Hmmmm it hurts to pass this one ...
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Kenny-k
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by Kenny-k » 15/12/15, 20:50

Indeed the mat must not weigh more than 20Kg (4 pieces of 2m connected by sleeves of 35 pinned) .... I thought I had specified having chosen it for its weight ...
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Obamot
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by Obamot » 15/12/15, 21:02

Weight is an excellent criterion. The type of structure of cremona, allows to get rid of a more massive mat.

However, to be clear, I do not validate the mast in relation to the load it carries, nor to the stresses it undergoes. Even less does it give an approval as to the admissible fatigue limit with regard to the load carried.

I just say that the reasoning presented above is extremely false and unfounded.

This time I get rid of the little question / answer game. First because the cup is full and it becomes too serious. : Mrgreen: 8)
Last edited by Obamot the 15 / 12 / 15, 21: 04, 1 edited once.
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dedeleco
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by dedeleco » 15/12/15, 21:04

[Flytox Moderation] never had a piece or pure aluminum wire in the hands, broken at the first fold, unlike a vulgar wire much heavier, but you have to bend a lot of times !!
[Flytox Moderation]
This mat does not go to the top of Everest !!

[Flytox Moderation]

The alloys are very numerous, variable, sharp, very studied, chosen for a precise use, and for a circus, it is not for a wind turbine, which does not stop bending the mast thousands of times a day of wind , especially on the welds, much more difficult in aluminum, or dural, as for these first planes with fatigue underestimated in critical places !!
Even today, airplanes are very limited in precise flight times before changing the parts requested repeatedly.
We need the guarantee of the pylon manufacturer, number of hours of bends, which can be very strong, if the shrouds slacken a little, real problem almost inevitable !!


[Flytox Moderation]
Last edited by dedeleco the 15 / 12 / 15, 21: 10, 1 edited once.
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chatelot16
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by chatelot16 » 15/12/15, 21:05

Obamot wrote:No, don't listen to Kenny-K that's all wrong. We can forgive Chatelot, he did not study cremona: he will understand.


the trellis structure is my preferred solution for making pylons as well as frames and cranes

https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%89pure_de_Cremona

I did not say that the aluminum was zero and good for nothing ... I happened to use these mat show in 6060 aluminum, I know what it is: 6060 = AGS, alloy most common for all extruded profiles

to make wind turbine pylons my preferred solution is the good old steel angle iron like high voltage pylon of the EDF, but this is only my opinion, and I do not impose it

I do not like very much the thin pylon with guy, apparently economical but difficult to ensure its security ... I prefer the fairly wide pylon well triangulated kind high voltage pylon, but not necessarily as wide as the tower effel
Last edited by chatelot16 the 15 / 12 / 15, 21: 06, 1 edited once.
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Obamot
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by Obamot » 15/12/15, 21:05

Please, Chatelot, for once please do not add more! There is no point in putting a link to cremona a posteriori: already done.

[Flytox Moderation]
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Kenny-k
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by Kenny-k » 15/12/15, 21:11

It's good to specify ...
Know that at 8m guy lines not stretched, you can make the swing as much as you want, the mast does not move a bit of ass so I'm confident.
In addition I am and will remain very rigorous in controlling the wear of the welds of this material which I have used for a long time.
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dedeleco
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by dedeleco » 15/12/15, 21:14

[Flytox Moderation]
Fed up !!

Goodbye !!
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by Kenny-k » 17/12/15, 13:09

Otherwise I just looked at the history of the source reverser, if the one that is envisaged is this one: http://www.aiger.fr/fr/inverseurs-sourc ... 15kva.html

it will not go for 2 reasons:
it is not intended for 96V (48V max optional) and if the electronics are powered by the batteries, it will cause a charge imbalance in the battery pack.
So it should be certain that the connection to the batteries of this device is only a high impedance voltage measurement (but I doubt it)

If I trust the photos, there is no mechanical locking between the contactors, and having seen this many times in my career, a contactor pole it often happens that it sticks.
I doubt that this kind of source inverter is approved for use on the French electricity grid because if the grid side contactor remains welded there is a risk of sending current from the inverter to the grid (the probability is very low because this would have to happen precisely in the event of a power cut but the possibility exists => danger for the personnel working on the network)

    I come back to the source inverter:
    My goal is to connect:
    -The inverter output in 220V on one side in "normal source"
    -The EDF arrival in "emergency source"
    -The differential of the Electrical panel (which includes the lighting, roller shutters, gates and little used sockets) on the side of the "use" terminal

    Why wouldn't the 3,6KVA or even 15KVA source inverter fulfill this function (as long as I don't ask for more than 3600W)
    I do not quite understand why and in which cases the contactors would stick?
    Or why Forhorse sees a problem with the 96V of my batteries since it is the inverter which is connected to the source inverter?

    Another point, I left to put a circuit breaker 63A between the output of the batteries and the input of the inverter.
    Is it useful?
    We agree that an AC circuit breaker protects the DC without problem?
    The batteries are 12V / 150Ah, should I actually take a 150A circuit breaker?
    I passed 16mm², the size of the wires would it not be enough to protect from short-circuits?
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