When farmers make more money producing energy than food

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phil59
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Re: When farmers make more money producing energy than food




by phil59 » 17/09/22, 20:35

Janic wrote:17/09/22, 20:19
I think you have a good analysis, but unfortunately only partial, taking into account only the outcomes.
oh well, can you do better?
philCurrently, not a specialist at all in this (and in nothing either)


Well, yes, but there are things that seem obvious to me....
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izentrop
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Re: When farmers make more money producing energy than food




by izentrop » 17/09/22, 21:22

Sorry, I forgot to put the source of my quote https://france3-regions.francetvinfo.fr ... 12532.html

I had already noticed the waltz of tractors with full 10 and 12 tonne trailers which follow one another to fill the silos intended for methanisation on a site near me. I have nothing against farmers, but I don't find it normal that we deplete the soil to supply methanisers.
Especially since I doubt that the carbon footprint is as good as it is claimed. Fertilizers are made from natural gas. It is also necessary to count the fuel of the machines.
The exudates spread in the fields are a poison for the life of the soil.
Once again, without subsidies, as for wind turbines, it would absolutely not be profitable.
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phil59
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Re: When farmers make more money producing energy than food




by phil59 » 17/09/22, 21:37

izentrop wrote:Sorry, I forgot to put the source of my quote https://france3-regions.francetvinfo.fr ... 12532.html

I had already noticed the waltz of tractors with full 10 and 12 tonne trailers which follow one another to fill the silos intended for methanisation on a site near me. I have nothing against farmers, but I don't find it normal that we deplete the soil to supply methanisers.
Especially since I doubt that the carbon footprint is as good as it is claimed. Fertilizers are made from natural gas. It is also necessary to count the fuel of the machines.
The exudates spread in the fields are a poison for the life of the soil.
Once again, without subsidies, as for wind turbines, it would absolutely not be profitable.


A little agree with you on methanization in itself, but if you don't make a subsidy, nothing starts!

But it must not be a roundabout way for some to make a profit.

Unless we can feed the whole planet...

Wind turbine subsidies are used for pension funds in Nordic countries, because we are too "dumb" to invest in them....
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sicetaitsimple
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Re: When farmers make more money producing energy than food




by sicetaitsimple » 17/09/22, 21:43

izentrop wrote:Sorry, I forgot to put the source of my quote https://france3-regions.francetvinfo.fr ... 12532.html


It seemed to me that something was wrong! It's much clearer with the full article.

That said, don't be fooled. The "large" agriculture (cereals, beets, etc.), unfortunately, whether intended for human or animal food or for energy purposes, can only survive at current prices thanks to more or less subsidies direct.
Biogas, biomethane or unsubsidized biofuels (either directly or via tax exemptions) just don't exist.
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sicetaitsimple
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Re: When farmers make more money producing energy than food




by sicetaitsimple » 17/09/22, 22:19

izentrop wrote:The exudates spread in the fields are a poison for the life of the soil.

Complement: I think you are talking about methanisation digestates?
To my knowledge, this is rather a good thing because it makes it possible to bring back to the field the elements which have not been affected by methanisation, phosphorus, potassium and trace elements, as well as part of the carbon which has not been attacked.
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Re: When farmers make more money producing energy than food




by izentrop » 18/09/22, 01:52

sicetaitsimple wrote:
izentrop wrote:The exudates spread in the fields are a poison for the life of the soil.
Complement: I think you are talking about methanisation digestates?
To my knowledge, this is rather a good thing because it makes it possible to bring back to the field the elements which have not been affected by methanisation, phosphorus, potassium and trace elements, as well as part of the carbon which has not been attacked.
Yes, I couldn't remember the word adequate.

I had already heard of earthworm mortality during spreading, but it does not seem so serious according to INRAE
Despite these data, some point to the potential toxic effects of digestate on soil life. Sabine Houot explains: "As they are very rich in ammoniacal nitrogen (like slurry), they can actually have a toxic effect on earthworms, especially in winter when the soil is very humid and the earthworms are surface. But the counts we have made show that this affected population only represents 1 to 2% of the total population. This loss is also compensated by the increase in the organic matter content in the soil by the digestate, which increases the number of earthworms over time compared to a plot that would only be fertilized with mineral elements. »
https://www.web-agri.fr/methanisation/a ... %20surface.

The proliferation of methanizers can pose problems that aggravate the situation of breeders and farmers with methanizers who need to import waste...
A farmer told us that a neighboring methanizer offered to buy his maize at a higher price than the price usually charged for animal feed. With the drought of this summer 2022, prices have increased so much that the FDSEA of Ille-et-Vilaine got involved. The majority union of farmers has asked the Chamber of Agriculture to distribute “recommended” selling prices. Recommended but not obligatory, because, on this market, the interplay of supply and demand takes precedence. The more methanizers there are, the greater the demand for waste. The higher the prices, the more difficult it is for some farmers to pay for the materials that will feed their methanizer. Until stopping the profitability of an installation.
https://reporterre.net/Methanisation-le ... riculteurs
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Janic
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Re: When farmers make more money producing energy than food




by Janic » 18/09/22, 08:23

Janic
oh well, can you do better?
philCurrently, not a specialist at all in this (and in nothing either)
phil
Well, yes, but there are things that seem obvious to me....
as?
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"We make science with facts, like making a house with stones: but an accumulation of facts is no more a science than a pile of stones is a house" Henri Poincaré

 


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