energy recovery from wastewater: turbine in sewage treatment plants in Switzerland

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chatelot16
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Re: Energy recovery of wastewater: turbines in sewage treatment plants in Switzerland




by chatelot16 » 22/06/16, 16:18

when you put the water tower at the top of the hill you have to consume electricity in the pumps that fill, and then it goes down, losing all the energy: in mountainous areas there are often pressure reducers that lose all the energy

replacing the pressure reducer with micro turbine we would recover a little ... but above all we can without any investment order the pump which fill to fill when there is energy rab on the network ... the water pump are part of the easy thing to order to reduce the need for storage ... I do not believe that the energy of the water supply pump is huge, and of course the energy of the used water will be of the same order ... the obamot figures seem surprising to me unless it is in a mountain area with a lot of rainwater in the used water

another remark for the evacuation of used water we put pipes just enough for q'uil passes the right flow with the slope ... even if the total drop is great we can not take the opportunity to make energy. .. to make energy you need much larger pipes so that there is not too much pressure drop and that we have all the pressure below

we notice this by seeing the difference in diameter of pipes between the irrigation systems and the hydro-turbine: for the same flow the irrigation has smaller diameters: it is common to see for 5bar useful for the watering jet 10bar at the pump and 5 bar of loss in the pipes ... if we made a hydrauulic turbine with the same diameter of pipes and 50m of unevenness the 5bar would be entirely lost in pressure drop and there would be no useful power

irrigation: another consumption of remote-controlled electricity to pump when electricity is running low
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Re: Energy recovery of wastewater: turbines in sewage treatment plants in Switzerland




by Obamot » 22/06/16, 16:59

It was not GW mas GWh per year mea culpa.

On the other hand, the 1GW (approx.) Of the STEP under construction is correct.
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Re: Energy recovery of wastewater: turbines in sewage treatment plants in Switzerland




by lilian07 » 22/06/16, 17:06

Personally, I would like to believe it but I may turn the problem around in all directions but impossible to see such an amount of energy recovered.

Besides the fact that hydraulic energy is already very widely exploited in Europe 80% without too much environmental consequences, the exploitation of the small network (river and stream) is far too complex to rehabilitate first by the multitude of landowners impacted (I speak for France which is in the same problem for the exploitation of the forests with its hundreds of different owners per km ²) then especially by the investment in such an unfavorable and disparate environment.

For wastewater I want to admit that the recovery of hot water calories at the user level can reduce the EDF bill by 50% but for the gravity potential it is necessary to have enormous height and flow in games any turbine function e with pressure differences and the pressure is useful to the consumer so the surplus can only be recovered in very anecdotal places.

To fix the ideas (roughly speaking): 1 Kwh of potential energy is 1m3 of water at 400m and 1 kwh of thermal energy it is this same m3 raised by 1 ° (thermal).

There is certainly a lot of theory in this project but it is surely the way to scrape a little energy in this area ...
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Re: Energy recovery of wastewater: turbines in sewage treatment plants in Switzerland




by chatelot16 » 22/06/16, 19:12

obamot when will you understand the usefulness of writing the whole unit of measure

to describe the power of an installation in GWh is absurd ... it is absolutely necessary to specify GWh / years or GWh / days or GWh / h therefore all simply GW

between sometimes forget the by years sometimes forget the h sometimes add the h when there is none we make all the mistakes we want
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Re: Energy recovery of wastewater: turbines in sewage treatment plants in Switzerland




by Christophe » 22/06/16, 19:14

lilian07 wrote:Personally, I would like to believe it but I may turn the problem around in all directions but impossible to see such an amount of energy recovered.


Well it's still based on a university report and descriptions of real installations ...

It is no longer belief, but many facts!
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Re: Energy recovery of wastewater: turbines in sewage treatment plants in Switzerland




by raymon » 24/06/16, 11:52

In the same genre there is the possibility of generating electricity with potable water or pressurized irrigation water. In water networks we use regulators to lower the water pressure they can be replaced by small generators example in Tahiti:
https://www.lenergieenquestions.fr/tahi ... ectricite/
A fun flat in Nice, the weight of lobbies maybe:
The water arrives by a pipe and leaves by another to make turn a “micro-turbine”

After 9 years of administrative procedures, this innovative “micro-turbine” was able to be installed on the Nice drinking water network.

http://ressources-et-environnement.com/ ... ectricite/
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Re: Energy recovery of wastewater: turbines in sewage treatment plants in Switzerland




by izentrop » 24/06/16, 12:28

raymon wrote:After 9 years of administrative procedures, this innovative “micro-turbine” was able to be installed on the Nice drinking water network.
http://ressources-et-environnement.com/2011/04/l%E2%80%99eau-du-robinet-permet-de-produire-de-l%E2%80%99electricite/
Benoît le Falher, chief operating officer of Veolia Water, explains that "the drinking water plant is located at an altitude of 220 m".
In this case, it reduces the excessively high pressure, but elsewhere, pumps are used so that each user has sufficient pressure at the tap.
Consuming this pressure to make electricity would be counterproductive. : Mrgreen:
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Re: Energy recovery of wastewater: turbines in sewage treatment plants in Switzerland




by raymon » 24/06/16, 13:22

In this case, it reduces the excessively high pressure, but elsewhere, pumps are used so that each user has sufficient pressure at the tap.
Consuming this pressure to make electricity would be counterproductive. : Mrgreen:

Obviously this is not suitable for all cases it will be used only when there is for example more than 3 or 4 bar of pressure in certain parts of the network and only there.
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Re: Energy recovery of wastewater: turbines in sewage treatment plants in Switzerland




by lilian07 » 24/06/16, 21:45

And when we reduce this pressure from 4 to 5 bars to 2 bars for a high consumption like filling a swimming pool and well it's 3 kWh ... it's not much!
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Re: Energy recovery of wastewater: turbines in sewage treatment plants in Switzerland




by chatelot16 » 24/06/16, 23:19

Christophe wrote:
lilian07 wrote:Personally, I would like to believe it but I may turn the problem around in all directions but impossible to see such an amount of energy recovered.


Well it's still based on a university report and descriptions of real installations ...

It is no longer belief, but many facts!


an academic report or facts may be fair but if we don't read it correctly and quote them by modifying the units of measure we do anything!

the waste water is supplied with what has been pumped for the water supply ... the power of the supply pump is not huge ... this is part of the means of optimizing the electrical network which will be used in the future ... it doesn't compare to the GW of power plants
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