Towards a logging industry?

Renewable energies except solar electric or thermal (seeforums dedicated below): wind turbines, energy from the sea, hydraulic and hydroelectricity, biomass, biogas, deep geothermal energy ...
Ahmed
Econologue expert
Econologue expert
posts: 12298
Registration: 25/02/08, 18:54
Location: Burgundy
x 2963

Towards a logging industry?




by Ahmed » 03/12/11, 12:04

By chance browsing the December issue of the "Journal de la mechanization Forestière", I see that it echoes a rather unusual fact: a group listed on the stock exchange, "Poujoulat Cheminées", is launching an ambitious program of investment in industrial wood-log production.

Already a producer of densified logs and pellets, it is a different sector that he is now targeting.
A first plant near Châtauroux is operational and has a potential capacity of 200.000 st / year, another towards Noirétable is planned and could shape 100.00 st / year.

It is an approach rather backwards of the dominant strategy, which goes more easily from industrial production to "intangible" than the reverse!

Enough in any case to arouse curiosity.

I deliver this information to yours ... as well as your thoughts.
0 x
"Please don't believe what I'm telling you."
User avatar
minguinhirigue
Éconologue good!
Éconologue good!
posts: 447
Registration: 01/05/08, 21:30
Location: Strasbourg
x 1




by minguinhirigue » 03/12/11, 12:40

Rather sympathetic, the French forest is no longer viable due to the low mechanization of wages and the significant increase in labor costs.

Being able to industrialize it a little, if that makes it possible to make wood energy viable (less fossil fuels) and to ensure the sustainability, by training and requalification, of employees of a disaster sector, it's a great project.
0 x
Ahmed
Econologue expert
Econologue expert
posts: 12298
Registration: 25/02/08, 18:54
Location: Burgundy
x 2963




by Ahmed » 03/12/11, 13:03

Couldn't you edit your first sentence, it's obscure?
0 x
"Please don't believe what I'm telling you."
User avatar
Did67
Moderator
Moderator
posts: 20362
Registration: 20/01/08, 16:34
Location: Alsace
x 8685




by Did67 » 03/12/11, 16:18

Worth a deep reflection:

- on the one hand, a nascent "pellet" sector, with "industrialized" production, in return for standards, guaranteed yields, automation, a rather expensive boiler room

- the "platelets" sector: ditto, but with even more expensive boilers and without special measures, more pollution

- the "logs" sector, currently essentially artisanal (or even "self-produced), with low costs as a result (but in areas of tension, brought to the PCI, the log can exceed pellets! with us in Alsace!) , more difficult to automate for the user, more polluting without precaution (its generalization would require regulatory meusres as in Germany, or the return of "smog")


That being said, for the moment, an undeniable potential also for "psychological" reasons: the log stove with vision of the fire, good for morale ... or the insert ...
0 x
dedeleco
Econologue expert
Econologue expert
posts: 9211
Registration: 16/01/10, 01:19
x 10




by dedeleco » 03/12/11, 18:02

In my opinion there is a huge potential for progress on the use of logs, at all stages, drying, yield, lowering the price of efficient and automated stoves, etc.
If you want it !!
0 x
Ahmed
Econologue expert
Econologue expert
posts: 12298
Registration: 25/02/08, 18:54
Location: Burgundy
x 2963




by Ahmed » 03/12/11, 19:15

Dis67, you're talking about standards for pellets (there is already roughly the equivalent for logs), you have to be careful: a standard, like a coin, has two sides.

The presentable side is the guarantee (sometimes purely theoretical, probably not in this specific case of the pellet) for the user of a correct quality; the other side, it is a useful manufacturing constraint or not, in order to eliminate competitors too small to equip ...

From a purely technical point of view, these factories will supply logs that have been artificially dried and therefore have a good yield.
Currently, quality and throughput often conflict, because it is not easy (financially) to store large quantities of firewood while natural drying takes place.
0 x
"Please don't believe what I'm telling you."
Ahmed
Econologue expert
Econologue expert
posts: 12298
Registration: 25/02/08, 18:54
Location: Burgundy
x 2963




by Ahmed » 04/12/11, 16:35

Well, is that really all that inspires you?
You disappoint me, I thought you were more imaginative, would you have gone to school too long?
If that continues, I will see myself in the obligation to answer me! :frown:

This is a threat!
0 x
"Please don't believe what I'm telling you."
User avatar
sen-no-sen
Econologue expert
Econologue expert
posts: 6856
Registration: 11/06/09, 13:08
Location: High Beaujolais.
x 749




by sen-no-sen » 04/12/11, 17:47

With the increase in energy prices, wood risks becoming the energy of the future! : Lol:

For my part, I consider wood as a free resource (recovery of wood in the forest, pruning at the neighbors etc ...).
But it is a sector to be encouraged, allowing local labor and consumption ... not relocatable.
0 x
"Engineering is sometimes about knowing when to stop" Charles De Gaulle.
Ahmed
Econologue expert
Econologue expert
posts: 12298
Registration: 25/02/08, 18:54
Location: Burgundy
x 2963




by Ahmed » 04/12/11, 19:36

Okay, I would not insist, but you all seem in small shape! The return of the rain or the lack of light in the fall?

But it is a sector to be encouraged, allowing local labor and consumption ... not relocatable.

Yeah ... "encourage" is a somewhat vague generality: is it a friendly pat on the shoulder or a salary in relation to the arduousness of the work *? :-)
"Not relocatable", certainly not in China, but in another way: it is poor immigrants who are massively needed for these thankless tasks (a remark obviously devoid of a racist character).
In the specific case cited above, the local character is relative since it attacks a dense fabric of suppliers frontally:
1- an ambitious new player can only cut the shares of an existing market that is not very quickly expandable.
2- Concentrating production, it moves away from users.
3- As a client in a dominant situation, it will not act favorably on the subcontractors' prices, since even if its structure allows productivity gains inside the factory, downstream and upstream are not affected; more intrinsic structural costs are to be expected.

I think that the "professional requalification" seen by minguinhirigue will be very limited, if it exists and the number of "disaster-stricken employees" in the sector will increase.

I also wonder about the reasons that led to this strange operation ... subsidies? ... error of judgment? ... well-established plan to establish a monopoly situation?
I do not have the answers to these questions, but I will follow the sequence of events carefully.

Extract from an article in "La République":
These logs produce 50% more energy than traditional wood. This is a very effective product. "
What about the portfolio? "It's the same price at a calorie level," explains the manager. One cubic meter coming out of here is equivalent to two cubic meters of classic wood and will be sold for around € 100. "

* Better paid, the work would be less strenuous because possibly less intense.
0 x
"Please don't believe what I'm telling you."
User avatar
Did67
Moderator
Moderator
posts: 20362
Registration: 20/01/08, 16:34
Location: Alsace
x 8685




by Did67 » 04/12/11, 19:48

Ahmed wrote:
Extract from an article in "La République":
These logs produce 50% more energy than traditional wood. This is a very effective product. "
What about the portfolio? "It's the same price at a calorie level," explains the manager. One cubic meter coming out of here is equivalent to two cubic meters of classic wood and will be sold for around € 100. "

* Better paid, the work would be less strenuous because possibly less intense.


So I can answer you: it's pipo!

50% more energy, certainly not! (except to compare with fresh cut wood ???). Normally, logs are sold after natural drying (gartuit except capital immobilization!), At around 20% humidity. With us, for dense hardwood, prices are high, around 50/55 euros per cubic meter if you buy.

The 100 euro stere, even dry at 0% humidity (infeasible), will be more expensive, reduced to PCI, than pellets! Which allow them to be used 100% automatically ("like fuel").

So "business plan" already dead !!! No need to argue. With or without autumn light!
0 x

 


  • Similar topics
    Replies
    views
    Last message

Back to "hydraulic, wind, geothermal, marine energy, biogas ..."

Who is online ?

Users browsing this forum : No registered users and 307 guests