Thermal wind turbine?

[Ahmed]

I doubt that the main concern is the clutch, since at low rotational speed the resistance remains quite low, to then rise with its possible increase.

[BaudouinLabrique]

I doubt that the main concern is the clutch, since at low rotational speed the resistance remains quite low, to then rise with its possible increase.

I had the opportunity to test the strength of the wind by holding a small propeller from a domestic wind turbine rotor: you can't imagine the strength of the wind and therefore no problem especially with a Savonius which is the one that starts the faster.

[izentrop]

I was talking about the study on which this project is based:

“In 2013, a study on a prototype produced similar results,
and estimated system efficiency at 91%. »
(see http://www.bulipi-eee.tuiasi.ro/archive ... 4_2013.pdf)

These are not "eddy currents" but the agitation of the water (hydraulic brake) as in a mixer which then produces heat.

What is the efficiency of the mechanical energy/heat conversion? We don't know anything about it, there is only a theoretical study https://www.researchgate.net/publicatio ... achine#pf2

By reading the file you will learn that it has made it possible to heat houses (the water reaches at least 45°)

Not seen, it goes a little in all directions, with broken links.
Do we know with what performance and what wind speed, compared with a more classic system?

the Savonius wind turbine, on the other hand, turns out to be a very good candidate for the production of
heat: this small wind turbine managed to generate up to 1 kW of thermal power (at a
wind speed of 15 m/s).

very common as wind speed a few meters above ground

[BaudouinLabrique]

What is the efficiency of the mechanical energy/heat conversion? We don't know anything about it, there is only a theoretical study https://www.researchgate.net/publicatio ... achine#pf2

There is what Joule did: Joule's machine, as shown in the file:
"Joule's experiment is an experiment consisting in agitating a fluid by providing it with a known work and measuring the resulting temperature rise by viscous friction. Originally carried out by James Prescott Joule, the fluid being water and the work provided by the rotation of blades driven by the fall of a mass, the experiment measured the energy that had to be provided to 1 g of water to raise its temperature by 1°C. More generally, it made it possible to establish the equivalence between work (mechanical energy) and heat (thermal energy). "
https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exp%C3%A9rience_de_Joule

By reading the file you will learn that it has made it possible to heat houses (the water reaches at least 45°)

Not seen, it goes a little in all directions, with broken links.
Do we know with what performance and what wind speed, compared with a more classic system?

the Savonius wind turbine, on the other hand, turns out to be a very good candidate for the production of
heat: this small wind turbine managed to generate up to 1 kW of thermal power (at a
wind speed of 15 m/s).

very common as wind speed a few meters above ground

To manage to do it with a horizontal wind turbine (with blades) it would have to be more than 11 m and nothing around (especially not in town): the Calorius did it but as indicated in the file, there is had damage... and as everything is installed at height, the inspection cannot be done except by putting it on the ground (cost and loss of time) and problems are noticed too late, for example of sealing.

[izentrop]

What is the efficiency of the mechanical energy/heat conversion? We don't know anything about it, there is only a theoretical study https://www.researchgate.net/publicatio ... achine#pf2

There is what Joule did: Joule's machine,

and who intends to manufacture this kind of hypothetical machine?

[BaudouinLabrique]

What is the efficiency of the mechanical energy/heat conversion? We don't know anything about it, there is only a theoretical study https://www.researchgate.net/publicatio ... achine#pf2

There is what Joule did: Joule's machine,

and who intends to manufacture this kind of hypothetical machine?

By reading the file, you could have learned that there were 34 Calorius manufactured:
* " The performance of one of Denmark's first small heat-producing wind turbines was officially tested. [Built in series,] lhe Calorius type 37 – 9 meters high and equipped with a 5 meter diameter rotor – produced 3,5 kilowatts of heat for a wind speed of 11 m/s (strong breeze, Beaufort 6). This is comparable to the heat produced by smaller boilers used for space heating. Between 1993 and 2000, the Danish company Westrup built a total of 34 wind turbines, 17 of which were still in operation in 2012. »
(see https://solar.lowtechmagazine.com/fr/20 ... dmill.html)

I haven't found a model made with Savonius yet but if the other models work, there's no reason it shouldn't work and what's more, even better for reasons already explained.

You could also have read that three students from ParisTech (university) made an experimental model and here is what they say about it (for the ECS):
« In this part, we want to compare the cost of using a conventional electric water heater and our system. We consider a volume balloon [...].
Assuming a kWh price of €0,17 (while the kWh price will probably be higher in the near future), the use of an electric water heater comes at an annual cost of €745. The cost of a low-tech 200W wind turbine is around 350€. By estimating the mixer part at the same cost, we arrive at a complete cost of our system of 700€. We therefore obtain our return on investment in approximately 1 year »
and in fact, since the price of the kWh in Belgium is triple, the amortization will be done in 4 months for the ECS!
(see https://www.retrouversonnord.be/HotEole ... eolien.pdf)

[izentrop]

the Danish company Westrup has built a total of 34 wind turbines, of which 17 were still in operation in 2012.”
(see https://solar.lowtechmagazine.com/fr/20 ...dmill.html)

"Not Found
This page could not be found"

Not to mention the coupling with wind turbines, because it is also cold when there is no wind (we saw it again this winter), is there this type of machine on the market that produces heat from mechanical energy, apart from the heat pump which operates on an electrically managed cycle?

[sicetaitsimple]

I haven't found a model made with Savonius yet but if the other models work, there's no reason it shouldn't work and what's more, even better for reasons already explained.

What surprises me is that it doesn't seem "weird" to you?
So the whole world, and in particular certain European countries that are pioneers in wind power and greedy for heating, would have missed out on something absolutely brilliant in terms of energy production, in this case low-temperature heat?
As for "the other models which work" or which have worked, apart from 37 installations of the same type built in the 80s/90s in Denmark, I have not found any trace of them in your file.
Anyway...If you're interested in collating links to old articles, I don't see any problem with that.
And if you want to get into "your project", either. I just think that you will explain (or not) one day the reasons why you gave it up. Or we wait for the photos, the performance, and the price.

[BaudouinLabrique]

the Danish company Westrup has built a total of 34 wind turbines, of which 17 were still in operation in 2012.”
(see https://solar.lowtechmagazine.com/fr/20 ...dmill.html)

"Not Found
This page could not be found"

https://solar.lowtechmagazine.com/fr/20 ... dmill.html

Not to mention the coupling with wind turbines, because it is also cold when there is no wind (we saw it again this winter), is there this type of machine on the market that produces heat from mechanical energy, apart from the heat pump which operates on an electrically managed cycle?

There are very few days without sufficient wind (Belgium) to allow the Savonius to operate (reminder, it starts much earlier than the others):

[BaudouinLabrique]

I haven't found a model made with Savonius yet but if the other models work, there's no reason it shouldn't work and what's more, even better for reasons already explained.

What surprises me is that it doesn't seem "weird" to you?
So the whole world, and in particular certain European countries that are pioneers in wind power and greedy for heating, would have missed out on something absolutely brilliant in terms of energy production, in this case low-temperature heat?
As for "the other models which work" or which have worked, apart from 37 installations of the same type built in the 80s/90s in Denmark, I have not found any trace of them in your file.

In my file you could have found the explanation as follows:

In fact, we know that the advent of thermal wind turbines in Denmark was motivated by the consequences of the first oil shock: to heat in a much more economical way.

In fact, you should know that In 1972 Denmark was one of the OECD countries most dependent on oil (92% of its total energy consumption) with one of the highest per capita consumption in the world. ».
So, " It was very traditionally towards nuclear power and gas that the Danish electricity companies proposed to turn in 1976 to get Denmark out of its almost total dependence on oil imported entirely at the time. »
(see https://www.actu-environnement.com/medi ... chance.pdf)

However, since 2013, the installation of oil or gas heating in new buildings is prohibited in Denmark. " Since 2016, their operation is also prohibited in old buildings if connection to the district heating network or the use of other green systems such as heat pumps is possible. By 2030 at the latest, all oil heating systems should be replaced by more environmentally friendly solutions. Even electric heaters may no longer be installed.
These currently only work in about 6% of all households. By the end of the year [2023], it is expected that a good 60% of all households will be supplied with district heating. (May 2023: cf. https://www.nouvelles-du-monde.com/tran ... t-de-loin/ )

The cessation in 2002 of the production of the only mass-produced models, the Calorius 37 thermal wind turbines, is explained, on the one hand, by the technical problems encountered (°), but also, without any doubt, given the underlying counter pressure from the gas and nuclear lobbies and from what has been gradually put in place to adopt collective solutions, albeit more economical: it is the imminent prospect that will mean that a majority of Danish households will benefit from district heating (°°), undoubtedly the most economical option, which no longer made the use of wind thermal turbines so attractive.

(°) Problems that the manufacturer has not solved satisfactorily as evidenced by the following case:
cf. https://www.retrouversonnord.be/rapport ... lorius.pdf

(°°) In Denmark, “ Production takes place mainly in combined heat and power plants [from excess electricity production from wind turbines], which simultaneously produce electricity and heat in the form of steam. In a system that only produces electricity, only 40% of the energy is used, while in the case of combined heat and power, it is 90%. ” (cf. https://www.nouvelles-du-monde.com/tran ... t-de-loin/ )

NB However, the pressure of the nuclear lobbies should not be underestimated: this would analogously be what happened in the history of the automobile: “ At the beginning, we didn't really know which way the automobile was going to take. Finally, it took the thermal route, but we know that several decades ago, there were as many thermal cars as electric ones. The oil lobbies and the Ford factories have made it the combustion engines that have taken over. (Laurent Blairon, journalist at the automobile monitor)
(see https://www.rtl.be/info/belgique/econom ... 27591.aspx)

In the absence of recourse to what is undoubtedly the most economical solution, which is district heating, but which, outside Denmark, does not seem to have the wind in its sails, it can then be reasonably estimated that in terms of return on investment, we then find ourselves in the same conditions created by the first oil shock, thus making access to thermal wind turbines attractive again, but this time, for a period of no return to the old situation of the slightest electricity cost.

Anyway... If collating links to old articles interests you, I don't see any problem. And if you want to get started in "your project", either. I just think that you will explain (or not) one day the reasons why you gave it up. Or we wait for the photos, the performance, and the price.

Regardless of the date of the articles, what counts is the factual content and besides they are not all old!