Pat, why, how, how much, and strength?

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by Ahmed » 31/01/14, 20:31

The patent system is bad because it leads to secrecy.

The original idea of ​​the patent was the opposite: to protect the inventor without having to resort to secrecy and to make these inventions public, while guaranteeing exclusivity for a certain time.
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by chatelot16 » 31/01/14, 22:54

the original idea was to give the manufacturing monopoly to the inventor, in exchange for the clear publication of the invention to advance science

the original intention was reversed by forcing to maintain secrecy until the patent was filed ... therefore prohibit the inventor from seeking advice to verify the validity of his invention before paying to file

the other original intention which has been lost is that the current patents are not clear enough to advance science: those who file patents make them intentionally incomprehensible so as not to be understood by those who are not specialists

hell is paved with good intention: the patent system of the inpi has paved hell well, and in other countries it is not better
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by Grelinette » 01/02/14, 10:53

It's interesting Chatelot's idea of ​​an "industrial Sacem" instead of the patent!

(Chatelot, have you thought about patenting this concept? : Cheesy: )

Surely more difficult to set up because a technical creation requires a more internal verification to check if there is plaggia, unlike musical works easy to hear, especially in the case of a public broadcast.

An "industrial sacem" would be more suitable for small creators while the patent is made for large companies.
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by chatelot16 » 01/02/14, 12:44

Grelinette wrote:It's interesting Chatelot's idea of ​​an "industrial Sacem" instead of the patent!

(Chatelot, have you thought about patenting this concept? : Cheesy: )


no: it is impossible to patent a concept: you can only patent an invention that allows you to build something like a machine ... even if it is not necessary to prove that it works

the INPI does not only register patents but also registered models: and it looks more like sacem: we file a precise model: it is less powerful than a patent because a competitor can use the same principle as long as it doesn't exactly copy the model: it's like the plagiarism of a song: to make a plagiarism you have to copy exactly

the deposited model can be deposited when one wants even after disclosure: one can thus manufacture and sell in small quantity, then to deposit the model qund one sees that it sells well to prohibit the competitor from making a direct copy

the patent protects the invention in all its possible uses: at the beginning of the mechanics one could patent very general invention: for example at the time of Watt a certain Boulton patented the crank rod system! not to pay for it Watt made his first steam engine with a somewhat bizarre gear system
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by Janic » 04/02/14, 16:18

Another special feature of the patent: if it affects national defense, it cannot be exploited and remains in the realm of secrecy, which is impossible without a patent.
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by Grelinette » 04/02/14, 17:52

I come back to this "strategy" of publishing the details of an invention on a website, for example a page created for the occasion, have the publication noted by an official body (bailiff, notary) then remove the text after the report .

(or, as Chatelot suggests, selling a copy of the invention to a trusted third party who will keep it safe from view)

There is certainly the risk that a surfer stumbles upon it by chance and widely disseminates the invention, but the probability is low if the page remains for a short time, 1 hour or 2, or a few minutes, what is more if the page is to a complicated web address.

This approach, admittedly a bit limited, nevertheless allows for irrefutable legal proof that an invention has been made public, and, consequently, to render a possible patent worthless.

This "strategy" can allow the owner of an invention to
keep control of its creation and its future in the face of much smarter and more experienced players in this field.

What do you think ?
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by phil53 » 04/02/14, 18:53

Find out at the INPI but I think you are making life difficult. A Soleau envelope meets your needs.
In addition if you send letters to yourself it is concrete to prove the precedence of your find!
If someone else deposits, he can but you on your side can continue to manufacture and even sell the products but not the idea
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by chatelot16 » 04/02/14, 20:19

send a registered letter only indicates the date, nobody reads the content

the soleau envelope only assures you the right to manufacture but does not prevent others from manufacturing if there is only the soleau envelope

of course as soon as you start manufacturing and selling no more patents are possible soleau or not

so finally the soleau envelope is only used if we want to keep the invention secret without manufacturing
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by Grelinette » 04/02/14, 23:11

I poorly explained the "strategy".

Firstly, with regard to the Soleau envelope, or the registered letter sent to yourself, it certainly allows to prove anteriority but not to prevent a third party from filing a patent. At most, this can allow the invention to be produced and sold on a personal basis even if a third party has filed a patent.

Note that for registered mail, the document itself must be used to make the envelope so that the postmark is printed on the document, and again, we can always object that we sent a white sheet on which we printed after receipt! ... So not so simple. It also seems that the registered mail service has considered this scenario because an option seems to provide proof of the contents of the recommended. It's here : Recommended evidence To check. I'm going to ask them to be sure.

I return to the situation which I explain above to clarify it:

Mr Eureka, a private individual, invents an innovative process but does not have the financial means to file a patent or to exploit his invention commercially. On the other hand, his invention interests a company and an investor who propose to finance the filing of the patent and to define% of co-ownership on the patent.

So far all is well, but nothing really protects Mr Eurêka against the company and / or the investor if the latter decided to get rid of him, even if Mr Eurêka was the owner of a Soleau envelope ... In short, Mr Eureka therefore has every interest in protecting his rear.

To use the 2 possibilities mentioned to protect yourself:

- he sells a copy or the plans of his invention to a trusted third party who will keep them in a corner (Chatelot's suggestion),

ou

- he publishes the details of his invention on a web page and has this publication made public by a bailiff, then immediately withdraws the web page.

In both cases, he holds proof that his invention has been made public, which would allow him, by producing this evidence, to invalidate any patent on his invention filed without his knowledge.
It's a bit crooked but legally it holds water!

In short, Mr Euréka continues his partnership with the company and / or the investor to exploit the patent according to the% of co-ownership on the patent.

2 cases then arise:

1) everyone has respected their commitments, the patent is successfully exploited, and Mr Eureka does not need to take out his proofs. Everything is for the best in the best of all possible worlds and Mr Eureka enjoys happy days sipping a cold beer by the pool of his new property in the Bahamas ...
Image

2) Mr Eureka realizes (too late) that the company and / or the investor to whom he gave his plans and explained everything in details did not tell him everything and sought to divert the patent for their sole benefit . Image

Note that in the chain of patent filing, between the design office which makes the plans, the workshop which manufactures the prototype, the company which is interested, the investor which finances and the cabinet which establishes the file of deposit patent, that makes a lot of people who may be tempted to hijack the invention and try to exploit it on the sly. The INPI recommends that each person involved in knowing the details of the invention sign a confidentiality document. In practice, this is impossible for an individual, and nothing prevents someone who is aware of the invention from talking about it to a third party who can testify on his behalf.

In short, Mr Eureka was bitten by his idea but he still has the possibility of taking out his proofs canceling the patent to go and negotiate with the fraudulent owner of the patent.
In case of refusal, with the production of proofs, all the investments made for the filing of the fraudulent patent would be lost, and what is more, the patent could be exploited by all competitors, which may cause you to think!

What do you think ?

(Okay, there is a flaw in this strategy, but I'm not telling you where : Cheesy: )

Finally, a little story I heard about an inventor who gouged his patent which illustrates the dangers. This is also the inventor himself recounted his misadventure with humor.

Mr X is technician lifts and invented a system to a broken elevator is automatically set in front of the nearest exit. The invention is simple, economical and remove all lifts incidents where people were trapped for hours or even whole weekend.
Several patent purchase offers made to him by professionals but a big company offered him the deal of the century: she buys him all rights to his patent against payment of a significant% of the amount of all facilities that they will do with its system. The company is the market leader, calculations and supporting figures, expected earnings were $ in millions, and even counsel for the inventor did not see the scam.

At the end of the sales meeting, as soon as the contract is signed, the inventor no longer owns his invention, the new owner takes patent and puts it in the trash, explaining that breakdowns and people stuck in elevators especially on weekends, represented for them a very profitable business they wanted to continue to use! ...
The contract specified the payment of a% on systems with anti failed system ... The system was never installed!
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by chatelot16 » 04/02/14, 23:37

the sale of a realization of the invention seems to me the most serious and discreet proof of prior art: it can therefore remain secret if a good agreement is made to pay the inventor ... and be a means of pressure if the buyer wants to roll the inventor ... or a means of revenge when the buyer has rolled the inventor

publishing on the internet is both more risky because it can be copied around the world, and more questionable because erasing quickly is not publishing!

the sale of an achievement is a disclosure! it is marked black on white in the texts of the inpi! Why look any farther
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