Inconsistencies of the French administration

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Grelinette
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Inconsistencies of the French administration




by Grelinette » 20/03/13, 13:26

I open this somewhat provocative subject (sorry for the officials present here) to highlight the many inconsistencies in our French administrative fabric.

It is no longer a secret for anyone, moreover recently François Beyrou declared on France Inter radio that our administrative system was often an ubiquitous, even Kafkaesque inconsistency!

I would go further by saying that in many ways, waste, loss of time, administrative labyrinths are real handicaps for our society and our economy.

Sorry, but I need to let off steam : Evil:

I also suggest that you let off steam by testifying here to funny or less funny situations that you have known.
You will see, it lets off steam and it calm to talk about it.

I begin :

- I changed my car, so I changed my registration document. So I deposited the ad hoc form at the town hall to request the new registration document and I was given a provisional receipt. Ok, everything seems to be rolling like clockwork, and icing on the cake, not even 15 days later I receive the new registration card ... Super!
... and 15 days later, I receive a new letter from my town hall which sends me a nice provisional registration certificate on a beautiful letterhead with an explanatory letter! ...

In short, there is a municipal service which turns for nothing to make papers which are strictly used for nothing! : Shock:
I informed the service question who explained to me that it was a legal obligation for them, and blablabbla,, and blablabbla, all this in a condescending tone ... (and 1 year later, rebellious with the car of my partner).

- Another (sometimes I have the impression that my name is marked in red ink in certain administrative departments : Evil: ).

I currently have (at least) 3 professional activities:

- I am an equestrian teacher in an equitherapy association and I therefore teach horse riding to young disabled people. To put it simply, the association pays me in the Associative Employment Check (CEA), a simplified declaration system partly supported by the state, the ussaf in this case. Everything seems simple, except that the salary calculations are incomprehensible and rather than receiving a Salary Slip I receive a document entitled "Certificate of Employment" which lists my wages like a payslip ... and of course this document is not accepted by most administrations (Sécu, Pôle emploi, ...) because there is no "Bulletin de Salaire" marked.
I let you imagine the anger and stress when the administration sends you a whole file with a reason such as "Only pay slips are taken into account" ...

- Other gags: I also have a contract with a company for maintenance work and green spaces. Re-belotte, to put it simply ... (you know the music!) The company pays me in Title Job Service Business (TESE).
Again, no salary slip but a certificate not accepted by French administrations. And even more absurd, this certificate (written in my name and at my address) is sent to my employer who must send it back to me, but who sometimes forgets that the Ursaf is sending them so much paper that my certificates are drowned in this administrative jumble!

I therefore called the TESE center to ask if it could not send me this certificate directly, since it is written in my name and at my address ... "Well no, it is not possible my dear sir ... ", always in a condescending tone which leaves you with the bitter taste of passing for less than nothing which makes an absurd request.
The worst thing is that when you address yourself to these administrations (and that you manage to have an interlocutor), 9 times out of 10 their response is: "Our service is not intended to respond to employees ... and cloc ... beep beep beep ".

- And a last one on the same theme: being a riding instructor, of course, I have to work for equestrian centes!
Well there, to put it simply ... (you know the music!) The equestrian center pays me in "TESA", but what about the teza? Well, it's the "Agricultural Service Employment Title", yes, equestrian centers have recently been attached to the agricultural sector. And of course, rebelotte, no bulletin but a certificate ....

And I don't even dare to tell you that I also work for individuals who pay me in "CESU", the Universal Service Employment Check, which can be issued by an individual ... or the General Council, or a company which finances it in part for its employees ...
The funniest thing is that some employers paid me with pre-filled checks they had received from the general council or their company ... and, beware the gag, each check from the checkbook that counts up to 20, is in the amount of ... of ... 25 euro cents : Mrgreen:

Imagine the face of the elderly person with whom I went to do a day's work: "Okay, so how much I owe you for the day's work ... I'm going to pay you in Universal Service Employment Checks, that's good, I'm coming to receive them ...

... And if, in addition, you want to laugh or cry, it depends, have fun calling the service that publishes these prepaid CESUs (from € 0,25) to explain the inconsistency and the waste of their work. You hang up by wondering if you haven't come across a service managed by aliens! : Cheesy: : Cry:

Anecdotes I have a lot more, but hey, I stop there. I've had enough fun.

To you...

PS: I forgot to tell you that of course, the services that manage the CEA, TESE, TESA and CESU do not communicate with each other and do not even know each other: therefore impossible to have a summary document!

Long live the French administration!

I understand better the reaction of some who have the means and who will take refuge abroad, isn't it Gérard? ...
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by Did67 » 20/03/13, 14:11

1) What does the town hall have to do with a gray card ???

Contrary to your testimony: my son registered his car via the Internet, sent the documents which he pre-filled and received his registration card 3 or 4 days later. And that's all !

2) What you are talking about above all concerns social security contributions.

You say "French administrative fabric", so we can consider that it is part of it.

On the other hand, "officials", no. See Wikipedia: Urssaf employees, like their colleagues in other branches of the general scheme, are not civil servants, and are covered by the same national collective labor agreement as the other Social Security employees (CCNT of 1957 for employees and managers, CCNT of 1968 for management staff). Any conflicts are decided by the industrial tribunal and dismissal is a possible approach within a body of the general scheme.


Social protection is, in France, a joint system managed half by employees and half by (private) employers ...

The CESU is a "service" of URSSAF. The TESA is the MSA (Mutualité Sociale Agricole - a "mutualist" organization).

They are not your employers, so indeed, no "payslip". These are simplified systems (sic!) For contributions (and they do for employers).

It is true that there are 36 regimes, which are not interconnected, etc.

For employers, this is a huge simplification.
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Re: The inconsistencies of the French administration




by Christophe » 20/03/13, 19:16

Grelinette wrote:It is no longer a secret for anyone, moreover recently François Beyrou declared on France Inter radio that our administrative system was often an ubiquitous, even Kafkaesque inconsistency!


Do you want us to talk about the Belgian system? : Cheesy:
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by chatelot16 » 20/03/13, 19:43

of course we can argue about the word official

really civil servant, or pseudo civil servant the problem is the same! people who have no good reason to satisfy their client ... they are made essential by the system

we are in a society that wastes a lot of money, and in addition wastes a lot of work with absurd paperwork

Being a real employer has become so complicated "that we invented a simplified employee payment system ... and when the administration simplifies you have to expect the worst

result it makes underemployed who have no real rights

the complexity of labor law becomes a violation of human rights

labor law destroys the right to work

what can other human rights serve well if there is no longer a right to work
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by Did67 » 21/03/13, 12:23

chatelot16 wrote:of course we can argue about the word official


1) Let us give back to each one what is due to him. If you are not satisfied with an oil change at Renault, it is still incoherent to accuse Peugeot (even if they do not do any better). It seems more honest to me.

2) But for me, it's not just that.

Once again, these are systems managed on an equal basis by ... employers (therefore "private"). Why don't they do better ???

For me, this question is not trivial.

3) I could open an equally long list on the very nasty job not done by very private companies with totally private employees ...

And to avoid the "She's fucked up France", I'll start with .... the new Berlin airport: an additional 1,5 billion; about 2 years late; 30 defects (so for almost a year, it is not functional but lit every night because ... there are no switches!)

Some elements here: http://www.welt.de/newsticker/dpa_nt/in ... ffnen.html

Not to "justify" anything.

Just to ask the question: isn't the question much deeper ??? Isn't there a generalized "letting go" where everyone thinks they can "fuck" the other and "get the most out" of the company ??? Wouldn't our society be decadent in the end ????? [in the sense: a civilization which no longer has a code of values, of honor, ....

This is what seems to me to be a real debate.

Otherwise, we can do crypto-Sarkozism and pit each other against each other. But beyond the release, what will it advance the "schmilblic"?
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by roy1361 » 21/03/13, 13:18

Did67 wrote:... (so for almost a year, it has not been functional but lit every night because ... there are no switches!)


Reassure me, this is a joke ???
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by Did67 » 21/03/13, 14:04

The real truth (well, seen on a German TV show!), I swear my friend!

If you don't believe me my friend, you read yourself: http://www.welt.de/wirtschaft/article11 ... t-aus.html

(everything is in the title)

Detail: "Auch das hat damit zu tun, dass wir mit der Leittechnik nicht so weit sind, dass wir es steuern können."

[let's put things in perspective: the airport, once open, operates day and night; so don't self, not shocking. There, it is necessary to guard etc ... And undoubtedly continue the work. So it's a little "all or nothing lighting" so "everything"]
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by culbuto » 21/03/13, 14:09

with the town hall:
my daughter, 18, has her papers to go to study in Quebec. She asks for a passport. And there the employee refuses the photocopy of the CAQ etc, she demands the originals. Later the town hall calls, we can go get the passport. my daughter to claim CAQ etc. "ah but no, we don't have them, manage! You shouldn't give the originals" ....... : Shock:
she returns home very annoyed ..... goodbye calves cows and caribou! she will not cross the border without this precious sesame ..... I show up at the town hall, demand to see a manager and decide to camp there until they have returned the papers. The tone rises, she accuses my daughter of having given the originals ...... she ends up leaving the office where I will not move without the papers! and come back with it! they were hooked on I don't know what, in short, relief from my daughter, relief from the good woman who says I'm going to leave ...... I hold that one, wait for it to pass in my hands for care........

other town hall: the school wanted a certified paper for children's vaccines, a photocopy was not enough : Cheesy: : Shock:
So I go for the first time with the pram after driving the older children to school. Nobody at the reception, empty offices, on 3 floors, an old lady happy to see me because she is looking to make papers for her retirement and there's ... nobody! I could have left with chairs, telephones etc, it was the same. I double check the opening hours, and come back 2 days later. Same ! it's the office of drafts! reception is reception because it is written on it, but still nobody. except 2 lost who also seek to fill out papers.
I tell that to the little husband who can hardly believe it. And so the next day he comes with me. Reception still empty, I find grandma who desperately hopes to see the world for her retirement papers. 3rd floor, where I should get my paper, someone came to tape an ad: EXCEPTIONALLY TODAY THERE WILL BE NO PERSON IN THIS OFFICE
gosh ! I missed the guy who taped the paper ......
finally we made km by car to go to another town hall, inhabited that one, and we had the papers in 5 minutes .......
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by Did67 » 21/03/13, 14:33

Certified papers: one of the most common abuses !!!

Unfortunately, to be right, we need courageous people who "drag" these services before the Administrative Tribunal, where they would have a chance of winning their case a few months later ...

Like no one else, the abuse continues! [I'm waiting to be retired, to "settle" some business like that]

http://vosdroits.service-public.fr/F1412.xhtml

http://www.legifrance.gouv.fr/affichTex ... eTexte=vig

In the meantime, ask for explanations with the texts in hand, possibly on the floor above (the "head of department" or the mayor ...).

Legally, however, this decree is partially circumvented in the sense that the service no longer requires a certified copyMore the presentation of the original ! And will therefore argue the number of counterfeits in circulation (first case reported).
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by chatelot16 » 21/03/13, 14:34

all rotten?

not a craftsman mason or carpenter masters his work and receives his customers correctly

the problem is that a lot of people are nothing more than unimportant cogs in an increasingly poorly screwed up system: no need to ask a lot of motivation from an employee behind a counter who spends the day getting yelled at for problems he can do nothing about

even some craftsman are caught in a bad system: the auto mechanic must obey the manufacturer more than the customer ... ditto for the heating engineer: some are more at the service of their supplier than the customer

you have to see what is most important ... when an employee makes a mistake it has a consequence, which can be repaired and which has no reason to recur: when a minister lays down a law or a regulation, and that MPs vote, it can complicate people's lives definitively: this error has definitive consequences

worse when the small employees see the multitude of bullshit who come from above to waste money and energy, how to ask them to be motivated and conscientious?

the waste that comes from above everyone
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